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OldYankeeFan
04-10-09, 01:08 PM
It's official...Swisher gets the start.

Marc Carig/The Star-Ledger
KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- After tying his career-high with five RBI against the Baltimore Orioles on Thursday, Nick Swisher will be in the starting lineup once more when the Yankees face the Kansas City Royals on Friday.

Andy Pettitte starts for the Yankees. He will be opposed by Sidney Ponson.

The Yankees lineup:
1) Jeter SS
2) Damon LF
3) Teixeira 1B
4) Matsui DH
5) Posada C
6) Cano 2B
7) Swisher RF
8) Ransom 3B
9) Gardner CF
Pettitte P

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 01:10 PM
I will be very disapointed if Sidney Ponson is still in the game after 4 IP. I expect the yanks to score early and often and then slowy pull away.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 01:11 PM
Nady takes a seat.

Its funny, my buddy and I were talking yesterday; I know Nady played over his skis in the second half last year, but over the course of his career he's hovered right around average. Unless he returns to late last year form, we're only losing the average guy that he's been over the rest of his career when we sit him down.

But as I've posted before, I think its time for Matsui to sit down on a regular basis. Matsui as a DH / cleanup hitter is a joke. He hit 31 HRs in 2004, but other than that he's only broken 20 twice. Just not a clean up guy, and I'd hate to see Joe act with the typical Yankees Loyalty, to a fault.

Mark19
04-10-09, 01:12 PM
A shame they didn't go with Pena over Ransom at 3B. Ponson gets torched by LH-batters

Stache Fan
04-10-09, 01:13 PM
:clap: :clapping: Sure is great to see Swisher starting over Nady.

aeromac76
04-10-09, 01:14 PM
Nady takes a seat.

Its funny, my buddy and I were talking yesterday; I know Nady played over his skis in the second half last year, but over the course of his career he's hovered right around average. Unless he returns to late last year form, we're only losing the average guy that he's been over the rest of his career when we sit him down.

But as I've posted before, I think its time for Matsui to sit down on a regular basis. Matsui as a DH / cleanup hitter is a joke. He hit 31 HRs in 2004, but other than that he's only broken 20 twice. Just not a clean up guy, and I'd hate to see Joe act with the typical Yankees Loyalty, to a fault.


With all due respect, I disagree with the Matsui comments.
I agree he does not fit the mold of a prototypical cleanup guy.

But we won a whole mess of WS with a guy like Bernie htting cleanup, and he did not have much more power than Matsui.
Matsui is a bonafide run producer. If he is healthy enough to swing the bat, even as a DH, he can help in an RBI spot.

Also, this is just temporarty as Arod looms..

Shanghai Bob
04-10-09, 01:16 PM
With all due respect, I disagree with the Matsui comments.
I agree he does not fit the mold of a prototypical cleanup guy.

But we won a whole mess of WS with a guy like Bernie htting cleanup, and he did not have much more power than Matsui.
Matsui is a bonafide run producer. If he is healthy enough to swing the bat, even as a DH, he can help in an RBI spot.

Also, this is just temporarty as Arod looms..


Nailed it.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 01:16 PM
I'd prefer Matsui in the 5 or 6 hole and that will be a reality once A-rod returns but in his healthy season he's consistantly but up OPS+ in the 120 - 135 range and I'll take that from the DH spot every year.

OldYankeeFan
04-10-09, 01:17 PM
A shame they didn't go with Pena over Ransom at 3B. Ponson gets torched by LH-battersI was hoping to see that too. Pena should definately get some games against RH pitching.

In Mo I Trust
04-10-09, 01:18 PM
With all due respect, I disagree with the Matsui comments.
I agree he does not fit the mold of a prototypical cleanup guy.

But we won a whole mess of WS with a guy like Bernie htting cleanup, and he did not have much more power than Matsui.
Matsui is a bonafide run producer. If he is healthy enough to swing the bat, even as a DH, he can help in an RBI spot.

Also, this is just temporarty as Arod looms..

Bernie was consistently slugging between .530 and .570 when the Yankees were stacking up titles, he had much more power then Matsui has now.

I don't think it's a big deal but I'd prefer someone else in the 4 hole.

In Mo I Trust
04-10-09, 01:21 PM
Nady takes a seat.

Its funny, my buddy and I were talking yesterday; I know Nady played over his skis in the second half last year, but over the course of his career he's hovered right around average. Unless he returns to late last year form, we're only losing the average guy that he's been over the rest of his career when we sit him down.


Nady hit in line with his career numbers with the Yankees last year (.794 OPS), unfortunately his line was boosted by his batting average inflated first half with the Pirates.

I just hope Swish starts consistently, IMO he is clearly better than Nady, Damon and Matsui.

NelsonMuntz
04-10-09, 01:21 PM
Nady on the bench ... color me shocked. Nice job Joe.

djeter220
04-10-09, 01:26 PM
like that swish is getting the start today. However, I don't want the job to be his so easily. I'd like to see nady continue to be the starter so swish feels the need to keep proving himself when he gets the opportunity like he has the past 3 games.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 01:26 PM
Nady on the bench ... color me shocked. Nice job Joe.
I know it's not going to happen but I would love to see him penciled in at 3B.

NelsonMuntz
04-10-09, 01:30 PM
like that swish is getting the start today. However, I don't want the job to be his so easily. I'd like to see nady continue to be the starter so swish feels the need to keep proving himself when he gets the opportunity like he has the past 3 games.
Why should the better player constantly have to prove himself in order to start? Should A-Rod have to prove that he's better than Ransom when he comes back?

tdel23
04-10-09, 01:36 PM
I know it's not going to happen but I would love to see him penciled in at 3B.

you want Swisher to play 3rd base?

OldYankeeFan
04-10-09, 01:36 PM
Why should the better player constantly have to prove himself in order to start? Nady will play against every LH pitcher and compete for ABs against RH pitching. The competition for both is a good thing.

OldYankeeFan
04-10-09, 01:38 PM
you want Swisher to play 3rd base?Think he's talking Nady, but I'd rather see Pena against some RH pitching.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 01:39 PM
you want Swisher to play 3rd base?
No I want Nady to take a stab at 3B. I know it's been ages since he played there but he was 3B in college. I'll take a few Mark Reynolds like misscues at 3B to get Ransom's bat out of the every day lineup until A-rod returns.

No offense to Cody, he's OK as a utility guy but like Molina last year, he is exposed as an everyday player.

djeter220
04-10-09, 01:40 PM
Why should the better player constantly have to prove himself in order to start? Should A-Rod have to prove that he's better than Ransom when he comes back?

No, because A-Rod has earned his job by playing MVP caliber baseball. Swisher isn't exactly leaps and bounds better than Nady. That's the perk of having guys that aren't superstars with mega contracts. You aren't commited to starting them every single day instead of going with the hot hand.

Shanghai Bob
04-10-09, 01:43 PM
No I want Nady to take a stab at 3B. I know it's been ages since he played there but he was 3B in college. I'll take a few Mark Reynolds like misscues at 3B to get Ransom's bat out of the every day lineup until A-rod returns.

No offense to Cody, he's OK as a utility guy but like Molina last year, he is exposed as an everyday player.

Has he ever played at 3B?

Don Wrigley
04-10-09, 01:43 PM
With all due respect, I disagree with the Matsui comments.
But we won a whole mess of WS with a guy like Bernie htting cleanup, and he did not have much more power than Matsui.
Matsui is a bonafide run producer. If he is healthy enough to swing the bat, even as a DH, he can help in an RBI spot.


It is UNBELIEVALBE how underrated Bernie Williams is. Bernie in his prime (during the WS years) was a MUCH better hitter than Matsui, it isn't even close. Also he wasn't a DH, he was an average-above average fielder at a premium position.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 01:46 PM
Has he ever played at 3B?
3 games for SD back in 2005 but like I said he was a 3B in college so the position isn't completely foreign to him.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 01:47 PM
It is UNBELIEVALBE how underrated Bernie Williams is. Bernie in his prime (during the WS years) was a MUCH better hitter than Matsui, it isn't even close. Also he wasn't a DH, he was an average-above average fielder at a premium position.
Berrnie put up hall-of-fame caliber seasons pretty much from 95 - 01.

teknetic
04-10-09, 01:49 PM
It is UNBELIEVALBE how underrated Bernie Williams is. Bernie in his prime (during the WS years) was a MUCH better hitter than Matsui, it isn't even close. Also he wasn't a DH, he was an average-above average fielder at a premium position.

Seasonal averages:

Bernie: 22/98/.297/.858/125+
Matsui: 24/106/.294/.848/123+

Bernie's prime was superb, Matsui wasn't as fortunate due to jumping over to the US at age 29. Don't think anyone here is/was underestimating Bernie.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 01:57 PM
With all due respect, I disagree with the Matsui comments.
I agree he does not fit the mold of a prototypical cleanup guy.

But we won a whole mess of WS with a guy like Bernie htting cleanup, and he did not have much more power than Matsui.
Matsui is a bonafide run producer. If he is healthy enough to swing the bat, even as a DH, he can help in an RBI spot.

Also, this is just temporarty as Arod looms..

My issue with this is that Matsui may be healthy enough to swing a bat, but not at the level he used to. I love the guy, but he's over his prime and he shouldnt be the New York Yankees DH / cleanup guy. I know its only until Arod gets back, but its still inappropriate.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 01:57 PM
Seasonal averages:

Bernie: 22/98/.297/.858/125+
Matsui: 24/106/.294/.848/123+

Bernie's prime was superb, Matsui wasn't as fortunate due to jumping over to the US at age 29. Don't think anyone here is/was underestimating Bernie.
But the OP suggested that NYY was winning championships "with Berrnie batting 4th" when those two statements were true, Bernie's worst season was 131 OPS+, though as you correctly point out they were his prime seasons. Still bugs me that Juan Gonzales won the MVP award in 1998 instead of Bernie who somehow finisted 7th in th evoting that year.

primetime714
04-10-09, 01:59 PM
like that swish is getting the start today. However, I don't want the job to be his so easily. I'd like to see nady continue to be the starter so swish feels the need to keep proving himself when he gets the opportunity like he has the past 3 games.

Its not his. Nady will almost certainly be in the lineup tomorrow and Swisher will probably be out. However don't be surprised to see Matsui pulled on Sunday in a day after night game. Gardner will be on the bench a decent amount too at some point but right now the team probably wants him in there to get him consistent ABs and to let him try to get comfortable at the plate against major league hitting. As the season wears on Damon will need rest and someone is bound to get injured or sore, so there is going to be plenty of playing time for everyone.

I think Joe is going to use his depth to rotate guys in and keep everyone fresh. And that's the right call. Even if Nady or Swisher steps up and earns the job the dropoff between these guys and even Damon and Matsui will likely never be great enough where you can't give each of our OF's time off without losing much if any offense from our lineup.

aeromac76
04-10-09, 02:00 PM
It is UNBELIEVALBE how underrated Bernie Williams is. Bernie in his prime (during the WS years) was a MUCH better hitter than Matsui, it isn't even close. Also he wasn't a DH, he was an average-above average fielder at a premium position.

Froma pure hitter standpoint (i.e. batting cleanup) the numbers are not as dramatically different as you make it seem. Teknetic posted some stats, they are pretty close.

aeromac76
04-10-09, 02:02 PM
My issue with this is that Matsui may be healthy enough to swing a bat, but not at the level he used to. I love the guy, but he's over his prime and he shouldnt be the New York Yankees DH / cleanup guy. I know its only until Arod gets back, but its still inappropriate.

Ok different argument perspective..
Who wopuld you have hit there until Alex returns?
If you say Tex that is fair, then you need a #3 hitter..

primetime714
04-10-09, 02:04 PM
No I want Nady to take a stab at 3B. I know it's been ages since he played there but he was 3B in college. I'll take a few Mark Reynolds like misscues at 3B to get Ransom's bat out of the every day lineup until A-rod returns.

No offense to Cody, he's OK as a utility guy but like Molina last year, he is exposed as an everyday player.

If they were going to do this they would've had Nady take some balls there in ST. With ARod's recovery going smoothly it looks like Ransom will be the everyday 3B until then. Although if Ransom's defense suffers and he is hitting don't be surprised to see Pena get some playing time.

I still think it was a mistake to not go out and get a real 3B that could at least split time with Ransom. Someone like Teahen would've been perfect and probably wouldn't cost all that much given the Royals depth. Unfortunately its a little too late for that so I'll just hope that Ransom can get things going until ARod gets back or that we can at least win in spite of his presence in our lineup.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 02:05 PM
I agree and know Girardi already ruled out Nady as a 3B option in spring which I thought was a mistake at the time.

Shanghai Bob
04-10-09, 02:07 PM
Abe is reporting the Jose Guillen is out of the KC lineup with injury. Good news for Yankee pitching.

sweet_lou_14
04-10-09, 02:10 PM
Abe is reporting the Jose Guillen is out of the KC lineup with injury. Good news for Yankee pitching.

Obviously I hope it's not too bad, but yeah I'm not ashamed to say I hope he's stuck on the bench for the whole weekend.

Now we only need to stop the immortal Ross Gload.

EDIT: No Gload in the lineup? Is he still with KC? I think his OPS+ against us is, like, 290.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 02:12 PM
Obviously I hope it's not too bad, but yeah I'm not ashamed to say I hope he's stuck on the bench for the whole weekend.

Now we only need to stop the immortal Ross Gload.

EDIT: No Gload in the lineup? Is he still with KC? I think his OPS+ against us is, like, 290.
Gload is in FLA

DaSh 1s
04-10-09, 02:14 PM
No way we should have acquired Teahen. Screw that contract.

LOHR21
04-10-09, 02:14 PM
Gload is in FLA


Thank God he always killed us

DaSh 1s
04-10-09, 02:15 PM
Thank God he always killed us

Your signature is comical.

Shanghai Bob
04-10-09, 02:18 PM
Obviously I hope it's not too bad, but yeah I'm not ashamed to say I hope he's stuck on the bench for the whole weekend.

Now we only need to stop the immortal Ross Gload.

EDIT: No Gload in the lineup? Is he still with KC? I think his OPS+ against us is, like, 290.

I also have bad memories of Gload AB's against us. I wish him well in FL and hope he stays there....

BTW, while the Royals are 2-1 and won their two games on the road, they did it mostly with pitching (only scored 8 runs in three games). And now they have to roll out Ponson and Ramirez. I feel good about this series.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 02:24 PM
My lineup when Arod gets back:

Damon
Cano
Tex
Alex
Jeter
Swisher
Gardner
Jorge / Molina
Matsui / Nady

I know it wont play out like this, but this is what I would do.

LOHR21
04-10-09, 02:26 PM
Your signature is comical.


Why is that?


Because I Love Melky

primetime714
04-10-09, 02:26 PM
No way we should have acquired Teahen. Screw that contract.

Yea cause we really couldn't afford 3.5M for a guy that would start for a month+ and really solidfy our bench both for this year and years to come.

OldYankeeFan
04-10-09, 02:27 PM
My lineup when Arod gets back:

Damon
Cano
Tex
Alex
Jeter
Swisher
Gardner
Jorge / Molina
Matsui / Nady

I know it wont play out like this, but this is what I would do.Except for Tex and Alex it looks like a lineup pulled out of a hat. Why Jorge 8th Matsui 9th? And in back of Gardner?

aknnav
04-10-09, 02:28 PM
Except for Tex and Alex it looked like a lineup pulled out of a hat.

Agreed. Bat Gardner 7th? Jorge 8th?

YankeeStripes
04-10-09, 02:30 PM
here is the lineup when alex gets back:

Jeter
damon
tex
arod
matsui
posada
cano
nady/swisher
gardner

primetime714
04-10-09, 02:32 PM
My lineup when Arod gets back:

Damon
Cano
Tex
Alex
Jeter
Swisher
Gardner
Jorge / Molina
Matsui / Nady

I know it wont play out like this, but this is what I would do.

Why? - I'm sorry but I don't see the logic in that lineup. I mean Matsui batting 9th behind Gardner and Molina when he starts? Jeter in RBI spot when he is more of run scorer vs. a run producer?

When ARod comes back the lineup will and should be:

Jeter
Damon
Tex
ARod
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Nady/Swisher
Gardner

If Cano continues his hot streak perhaps you switch him with Matsui, but other than that I don't see any reason to change that lineup.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 02:33 PM
I know it wont play out like this, but this is what I would do.
Thankfully you do not write the lineup card.
YankeeStripes has posted both the most likely and optimal lineup configuaration.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 02:34 PM
Except for Tex and Alex it looks like a lineup pulled out of a hat. Why Jorge 8th Matsui 9th?

If by pulled out of a hat you mean not exactly what everyone else says, then I agree, out of a hat.

So damon should obv lead off because he IS OUR LEAD OFF GUY!!! Cano second because, with all do respect, he's better at the plate than Jeter. Then Tex and Arod, you were ok with this. Next Jeter; I know he hit into a lot of DPs last year, but he's hitting the ball hard this year and I like him in the 5 spot. Then some more power / RBIs with Swisher. Gardner gets on base, and hopefully Jorge and Matui can perform and drive him in.

I love my lineup and there is my justification. If you want to copy and paste a lineup that you saw somewhere into this thread, kudos.

I would like to hear specifically why my lineup is "out of a hat."
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

aknnav
04-10-09, 02:35 PM
If by pulled out of a hat you mean not exactly what everyone else says, then I agree, out of a hat.

So damon should obv lead off because he IS OUR LEAD OFF GUY!!! Cano second because, with all do respect, he's better at the plate than Jeter. Then Tex and Arod, you were ok with this. Next Jeter; I know he hit into a lot of DPs last year, but he's hitting the ball hard this year and I like him in the 5 spot. Then some more power / RBIs with Swisher. Gardner gets on base, and hopefully Jorge and Matui can perform and drive him in.

I love my lineup and there is my justification. If you want to copy and paste a lineup that you saw somewhere into this thread, kudos.

I would like to hear specifically why my lineup is "out of a hat."
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Maybe not a hat - a basket? Your lineup makes no sense.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 02:36 PM
Interesting idea and points for creativity but baseball is a game of percentages and your lineup simply does not optimize the percentages.

NelsonMuntz
04-10-09, 02:38 PM
DirecTV blacking out the pre-game show now...are you f'ing kidding me?

Edit: It's blacked out on YES but viewable on the EI package. Last year I could just watch it on YES.

roblyo33
04-10-09, 02:39 PM
Maybe not a hat - a basket? Your lineup makes no sense.

Thin air........:dunno:

Brooklyn Yankee Fan
04-10-09, 02:40 PM
here is the lineup when alex gets back:

Jeter
damon
tex
arod
matsui
posada
cano
nady/swisher
gardner

Bingo.

Yankees1962
04-10-09, 02:40 PM
DirecTV blacking out the pre-game show now...are you f'ing kidding me?
Not here in Michigan.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 02:41 PM
Right, or people on here are much like the Yankees in their overextended loyalty to players. Jeter as leadoff, what a f'ing joke. Almost as laughable as Matsui as a cleanup guy. Jeter = not fast, Matui = easy popouts to right field. We have a real leadoff guy in Damon, but Yankees fans are too pigheaded to drop Jeter down in the lineup.

And Cano, yeah, lets bat him 6th or 7th, he's clearly the two hitter on a less politicized team.

Gardner, can clearly get on base, why not put him somewhere where he can be driven in by "so called" power hitters?

Sorry, I dont want to argue, I just want to watch the Yankees win today, but you guys shouldnt jump on someone who actually thinks about the lineup rather than going with what somebody else says.

Traditional thinking is what has us steeping in our current WS drought.

OldYankeeFan
04-10-09, 02:42 PM
So damon should obv lead off because he IS OUR LEAD OFF GUY!!! That's not a reason


Cano second because, with all do respect, he's better at the plate than Jeter. But Jeter is a better OBP guy and Cano I believe this year will be a better OPS guy so swap them to score more runs and drive in more runs.


Gardner gets on base, and hopefully Jorge and Matui can perform and drive him in. With all due respect, and I like Gardner (as a 9th batter until he proves himself) but batting him ahead of Matsui and Posada is, well lets just say very unique.

djeter220
04-10-09, 02:46 PM
My lineup when Arod gets back:

Damon
Cano
Tex
Alex
Jeter
Swisher
Gardner
Jorge / Molina
Matsui / Nady

I know it wont play out like this, but this is what I would do.

It's creative, I see your reasoning, but it's just not how you put together the best possible lineup.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 02:46 PM
Jeter is a high OBP guy with declining XBH power and high ground ball rates. Batting him 2nd or even 5th is not really a good solution. He belongs in the 1 or 9 hole right now and he's too good for 9.

Johnny Damon is great #2 hitter. Good contact. Low strikeout rate. Left handed. Some power. decent OBP

Cano is a free swinger with a good average and nice slugging - he belongs lower in the order to drive in the high OPB guys like Matsui & Posada who also have better power than him.

Gardner has yet to show the ability to get on base regularly at the MLB level. Until he does he belongs in the 9 hole or 8 when Molina plays.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 02:46 PM
Ok, well I guess my lineup is very reflective of the fact that I'm very down on Jeter, Matsui and Jorge.

BUT, I'm not a hater, I have loved the three of them their entire careers and I hope that they all have career years.

Shanghai Bob
04-10-09, 02:47 PM
here is the lineup when alex gets back:

Jeter
damon
tex
arod
matsui
posada
cano
nady/swisher
gardner

Ignoring the hilarious post to which you were replying, the correct lineup you posted is a sight to behold. Swisher or Nady hitting 8th. 8th!!!!! ARod lift your weights and kiss your mirrors, but get back soon.

OldYankeeFan
04-10-09, 02:53 PM
Jeter
Damon
Tex
ARod
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Nady/Swisher
Gardner

If Cano continues his hot streak perhaps you switch him with Matsui, but other than that I don't see any reason to change that lineup.
My lineup too, with the same thoughts regarding Cano/Matsui.

delv
04-10-09, 02:53 PM
But Jeter is a better OBP guy and Cano I believe this year will be a better OPS guy so swap them to score more runs and drive in more runs.


The highest Cano's OBP has ever been is 365, in 2006. Jeter averages a 389 obp over his career and in his worst yr of his career, last yr, while hurt, had an OBP of 363. I mean, it's possible, if cano keeps walking, as he's looking great, but i hope you realize that probabilistically unlikely.

Shanghai Bob
04-10-09, 02:58 PM
My lineup too, with the same thoughts regarding Cano/Matsui.

If Cano continues to hit and walk like in the first series, moving him up in the lineup will be up on the agenda soon enough. I'd give it at least 150-200 AB before I'd consider that though.

primetime714
04-10-09, 02:59 PM
Right, or people on here are much like the Yankees in their overextended loyalty to players. Jeter as leadoff, what a f'ing joke. Almost as laughable as Matsui as a cleanup guy. Jeter = not fast, Matui = easy popouts to right field. We have a real leadoff guy in Damon, but Yankees fans are too pigheaded to drop Jeter down in the lineup.

And Cano, yeah, lets bat him 6th or 7th, he's clearly the two hitter on a less politicized team.

Gardner, can clearly get on base, why not put him somewhere where he can be driven in by "so called" power hitters?

Sorry, I dont want to argue, I just want to watch the Yankees win today, but you guys shouldnt jump on someone who actually thinks about the lineup rather than going with what somebody else says.

Traditional thinking is what has us steeping in our current WS drought.

Jeter batted .300 with a .363 OBP and 102 OPS+ last year in a year many would describe as a "down year" for him. Its not pig headed to think he still deserves to be at or near the top of the lineup. Moving him to the #1 spot was a great move because his major weakness of late has been hitting into a number of double plays something that Damon has shown the ability to avoid at a better rate. And when you compare the rest of their numbers Damon and Jeter are pretty similar in most regards with Jeter traditionally being the better of the two in most areas.

Cano "clearly the number 2 hitter." Do you really want a guy with a career .337 OBP (.305 last year) batting in front of guys like Teixeira and ARod. I certainly don't. Especially when you consider how inconsistent he can be. When he shows some more consistency I think you can consider moving him up as high as #5 spot, but this is not a guy you want in front of your best hitters.

Matsui as the #4/5 hitter makes sense because he has been a good run producer throughout his career consistently putting up an OPS+ above 120. Even in an injury riddled year last year he managed a 108 mark. As a cleanup hitter he isn't the ideal fit, but then again he really isn't our cleanup hitter, he's just filling in.

Also please explain how Gardner batting 7th makes any sense? Maybe if you go by his spring numbers this year, but he is clearly the 9 hitter in our lineup.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 03:01 PM
The highest Cano's OBP has ever been is 365, in 2006. Jeter averages a 389 obp over his career and in his worst yr of his career, last yr, while hurt, had an OBP of 363. I mean, it's possible, if cano keeps walking, as he's looking great, but i hope you realize that probabilistically unlikely.

Funny that you refer to Jeter's career stats, and point out last year as an exception, but say that Cano continuing to "look great" is "probabilistically unlikely." Funny because Jeter is a player on the decline, and Cano is a player on the rise.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 03:03 PM
Funny that you refer to Jeter's career stats, and point out last year as an exception, but say that Cano continuing to "look great" is "probabilistically unlikely." Funny because Jeter is a player on the decline, and Cano is a player on the rise.
I think you are missing his point in that Jeter's worst year for OBP was last year at .363 and that was only .002 below Robbies best year in OBP.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 03:04 PM
Jeter batted .300 with a .363 OBP and 102 OPS+ last year in a year many would describe as a "down year" for him. Its not pig headed to think he still deserves to be at or near the top of the lineup. Moving him to the #2 spot was a great move because his major weakness of late has been hitting into a number of double plays something that Damon has shown the ability to avoid at a better rate. And when you compare the rest of their numbers Damon and Jeter are pretty similar in most regards with Jeter traditionally being the better of the two in most areas.

Cano "clearly the number 2 hitter." Do you really want a guy with a career .337 OBP (.305 last year) batting in front of guys like Teixeira and ARod. I certainly don't. Especially when you consider how inconsistent he can be. When he shows some more consistency I think you can consider moving him up as high as #5 spot, but this is not a guy you want in front of your best hitters.

Matsui as the #4/5 hitter makes sense because he has been a good run producer throughout his career consistently putting up an OPS+ above 120. Even in an injury riddled year last year he managed a 108 mark. As a cleanup hitter he isn't the ideal fit, but then again he really isn't our cleanup hitter, he's just filling in.

Also please explain how Gardner batting 7th makes any sense? Maybe if you go by his spring numbers this year, but he is clearly the 9 hitter in our lineup.

I think its fairly obvious that my lineup is based on what I believe guys are going to do this year. I'd rather look at Cano and Gardner and say, "based on how they look and their short past, they are going to.........." than make my lineup based on career stats of players who are on the decline.

Pete Rose's career numbers were great, but you would determine his place in his batting order based on those career stats would you?

Shanghai Bob
04-10-09, 03:04 PM
Ok, I'll be the first to say it. I smell a troll.

djeter220
04-10-09, 03:06 PM
Funny that you refer to Jeter's career stats, and point out last year as an exception, but say that Cano continuing to "look great" is "probabilistically unlikely." Funny because Jeter is a player on the decline, and Cano is a player on the rise.

Yes, Jeter is a veteran, therefore you can make better estimations based on career numbers. Cano is a player on the rise, and has shown both ends of the spectrum, so guesses are more based on observation and probability.

djeter220
04-10-09, 03:07 PM
Ok, I'll be the first to say it. I smell a troll.

not a troll, just a radical thinker trying to say "i told you so"

Shanghai Bob
04-10-09, 03:11 PM
Right, or people on here are much like the Yankees in their overextended loyalty to players. Jeter as leadoff, what a f'ing joke. Almost as laughable as Matsui as a cleanup guy. Jeter = not fast, Matui = easy popouts to right field. We have a real leadoff guy in Damon, but Yankees fans are too pigheaded to drop Jeter down in the lineup.



Traditional thinking is what has us steeping in our current WS drought.

Really? I am not sure "Yankee fans" would be posting this.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 03:13 PM
not a troll, just a radical thinker trying to say "i told you so"

Thanks for the support of not being a troll. What's a troll?

And I dont know if my thinking is radical, just saying what makes sense to me. I'm not afraid to recognize beloved declining players for what they are. And I dont want to say "I told you so;" what I really want is for everyguy to have a career year and for everyone to be right.

Almost gametime. 2-2 will be much easier to swallow. COME ON BOYS!!!!!!! COME ON ANDY!!!!!!!!!!!!

OldYankeeFan
04-10-09, 03:13 PM
If Cano continues to hit and walk like in the first series, moving him up in the lineup will be up on the agenda soon enough. I'd give it at least 150-200 AB before I'd consider that though.Yep, that's about what I would expect too.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 03:14 PM
Really? I am not sure "Yankee fans" would be posting this.

Born and raised in New York; lifelong Yankees fan; Season ticket holder; Come on man, dont be so afraid of the things you dont agree with.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 03:15 PM
Yep, that's about what I would expect too.

Its this type of thinking that loses penants. You're username sums you up well. You should have moved to LA with Joe.

roblyo33
04-10-09, 03:16 PM
Its this type of thinking that loses penants. You're username sums you up well. You should have moved to LA with Joe.

Stop being a horse's ass. For a newbie, you have no class.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 03:17 PM
I would also like to say, I like Nady or Swisher in the lineup over Matsui, anyday, at any spot in the lineup.

roblyo33
04-10-09, 03:18 PM
I would also like to say, I like Nady or Swisher in the lineup over Matsui, anyday, at any spot in the lineup.

You know what, nobody cares.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 03:18 PM
Stop being a horse's ass. For a newbie, you have no class.

Sorry I havent been posting on this website for years. I guess that makes my opinions less credible. Let me bow down and agree with all that you say.

What, are we not allowed to disagree? Take it easy.

djeter220
04-10-09, 03:18 PM
Thanks for the support of not being a troll. What's a troll?

And I dont know if my thinking is radical, just saying what makes sense to me. I'm not afraid to recognize beloved declining players for what they are. And I dont want to say "I told you so;" what I really want is for everyguy to have a career year and for everyone to be right.

Almost gametime. 2-2 will be much easier to swallow. COME ON BOYS!!!!!!! COME ON ANDY!!!!!!!!!!!!

A troll is a member of a message board who's sole purpose for joining is to provide conflicting opinions and incite arguments defending an opinion contrary to the popular consensus of the board. Hmm...maybe ill send that in to webster's. Your fear of clinging onto the old favorites for sentimental reasons alone is reasonable, but premature. Jeter and Posada, and obviously Mo, are still above average contributers, despite a natural decline.

roblyo33
04-10-09, 03:19 PM
Sorry I havent been posting on this website for years. I guess that makes my opinions less credible. Let me bow down and agree with all that you say.

What, are we not allowed to disagree? Take it easy.

You can disagree all you want. Maybe you should move to LA. Seems like you would fit in well there.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 03:20 PM
You know what, nobody cares.

Sorry, i thought this was a forum that people use to share opinions. If you dont CARE to share opinions then why are you here.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, I DONT WANT TO FIGHT WITH ANYONE. I'M SORRY I POSTED MY DREAM LINEUP.

GO YANKEES, GO YANKEES, GO YANKEES. :P:P:P:P:P:P

roblyo33
04-10-09, 03:20 PM
Sorry I havent been posting on this website for years. I guess that makes my opinions less credible. Let me bow down and agree with all that you say.

What, are we not allowed to disagree? Take it easy.

Were you RO'd last time???

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 03:22 PM
Posting your dream lineup is fine. Going to absurd lenghts to defend it while insulting other posters is likey to get you RO'd.

aknnav
04-10-09, 03:25 PM
Change of topic - Can anyone access MLB Audio? I can only get the Spanish feed and I don't exactly understand Spanish

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 03:27 PM
Change of topic - Can anyone access MLB Audio? I can only get the Spanish feed and I don't exactly understand Spanish
No it's saying not available. I'm listening to the Cubs until they come on line. Audio has been cranky this year with many pregame shows unavilable.

aknnav
04-10-09, 03:29 PM
No it's saying not available. I'm listening to the Cubs until they come on line. Audio has been cranky this year with many pregame shows unavilable.

For some reason, the game hasn't started yet. Maybe rain?

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 03:30 PM
For some reason, the game hasn't started yet. Maybe rain?
Appaently KC doesn't know how to schedule opening day ceremonies and that's the reason for the dealy.

gotnoname19
04-10-09, 03:30 PM
Posting your dream lineup is fine. Going to absurd lenghts to defend it while insulting other posters is likey to get you RO'd.

I didnt insult anyone, what are you talking about? Arent you a New Yorker? We can't have a robust discussion of lineups? Seems a little oppressive to threaten with an RO for the discussion that just took place. Wow!!!:)

mgpenguin
04-10-09, 03:32 PM
"Can he (Pettitte) turn back the clock?" Michael Kay asks. I'm not sure he wants to: Pettitte gave up 3 hits and 2ER in 0.2 innings in his debut.

djeter220
04-10-09, 03:33 PM
I didnt insult anyone, what are you talking about? Arent you a New Yorker? We can't have a robust discussion of lineups? Seems a little oppressive to threaten with an RO for the discussion that just took place. Wow!!!:)

just let it go, man. You're gonna have to get used to this if you're going to continue to express unpopular opinions (not saying i agree or disagree with you).

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 03:33 PM
I didnt insult anyone, what are you talking about? Arent you a New Yorker? We can't have a robust discussion of lineups? Seems a little oppressive to threaten with an RO for the discussion that just took place. Wow!!!:)
I'm no mod so you have nothing to worry from me. Just a freindly warning.

primetime714
04-10-09, 03:34 PM
I think its fairly obvious that my lineup is based on what I believe guys are going to do this year. I'd rather look at Cano and Gardner and say, "based on how they look and their short past, they are going to.........." than make my lineup based on career stats of players who are on the decline.

Pete Rose's career numbers were great, but you would determine his place in his batting order based on those career stats would you?

One thing is for sure your lineup is not based on any statistical evidence. Plus you still didn't explain why you would bat those guys in that position you just made blanket statements that in your opinion so and so batter should bat here. What do you think Cano will do this year to make you think he is the clear number 2 hitter? He has consistently shown an inability to draw walks do you suddenly see his OBP rising to numbers that Jeter and Damon continue to put up even at this stage of their "declining" careers. As for Brett Gardner why bat him 7th before guys like Matsui and Posada? Do you really think that Gardner can produce at a better rate than those guys and if you do, do you really want Matsui (and Posada for that matter) who can barely run hitting in front of guys like Damon and Cano who would be at the top of your lineup? All I'm asking is that you explain your logic. You're fully entitled to your own opinion. I just don't understand it and its pretty apparent that I'm not alone in that.

aknnav
04-10-09, 03:40 PM
Appaently KC doesn't know how to schedule opening day ceremonies and that's the reason for the dealy.

I can get the CBS feed now...

Yankee Tripper
04-10-09, 03:41 PM
I can get the CBS feed now...Thanks. I'm getting it too now.:)

Mark19
04-10-09, 03:42 PM
40 minute ceremony for Opening Day and some new renovations?

For a team struggling to earn respect, this doesn't help

Dave B
04-10-09, 03:47 PM
someone who actually thinks about the lineup

Someone who actually thinks about the lineup would come to the conclusion that having a guy with a low OBP in the 2 slot is a bad idea. Someone who thinks about the lineup would realize that speed in the leadoff spot is an old fashioned and outdated idea and that putting a guy who gets on base there a lot is a good idea. Someone who thinks about the lineup wouldn't give Gardner more at bats than necessary, especially not just a couple slots behind the OBP guys.

People who said it looked like you drew names from a hat were being polite. It looks more like you're deliberately trying to put together the dumbest possible lineup with the dumbest possible reasoning.


Ok, well I guess my lineup is very reflective of the fact that I'm very down on Jeter, Matsui and Jorge.

This is legitimate sentiment. All three can be expected to decline. But for now, that's who we have and we can only work on the information we have to this point. If Jeter and Matsui slip to the Mendoza line and stay there I wouldn't expect anyone to be so foolishly loyal as to keep them in the 1 and 4 slots. But for now, it works just fine.


40 minute ceremony for Opening Day and some new renovations?

For a team struggling to earn respect, this doesn't help

No kidding. Especially when the renovations killed the only character this ballpark had. Why put bleachers in where the cool fountains were? The last thing they need in KC is more seats.

OldYankeeFan
04-10-09, 04:02 PM
I didnt insult anyone, what are you talking about? Arent you a New Yorker? We can't have a robust discussion of lineups? Seems a little oppressive to threaten with an RO for the discussion that just took place. Wow!!!:)Haha, playing the stupidity card (even though you may be just that, judging by your lineup) doesn't really work.