PDA

View Full Version : Bobby Abreu Hopes To Re-Sign With Yanks



YanksFan1992
08-07-08, 05:10 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/08/abreu-hopes-to.html


According to Jesse Sanchez of MLB.com, right fielder Bobby Abreu hopes to play for the Yankees a few more years.

A quote from Abreu: I'm a free agent at the end of the year, so you understand how that is. Here is where I want to be, but we still have this season to play. There's still a long time before we talk about that.

Abreu, 34, is hitting .291/.364/.476 in 483 plate appearances this year. He did about the same in '07. Last November the Yankees exercised Abreu's $16MM option for '08. It's probably not going to make sense to pay Abreu much more than $12MM in '09.

webassign
08-07-08, 05:12 PM
thanks for everything bobby, but we want the draft picks

yankeebot
08-07-08, 05:13 PM
It's re-sign.

Mark19
08-07-08, 05:16 PM
If he'd do 2 years/$16 million I'd bite

YanksFan1992
08-07-08, 05:17 PM
It's re-sign.
Sorry. :o

YanksFan1992
08-07-08, 05:18 PM
Could a mod please change it to re-sign instead of resign.

Thanks in advance.

JeffWeaverFan
08-07-08, 05:18 PM
If he'd do 2 years/$16 million I'd bite
If he was willing to do that, he'd just accept arbitration and make 1/$16M.

Given Abreu's age I think it would be best to let him walk and take the picks.

AcidLake
08-07-08, 05:19 PM
So next year, we'd have:

Damon, Nady, Abreu, Matsui (as DH)

for OF.

That's not too shabby if they can live up to their names

YanksFan1992
08-07-08, 05:23 PM
So next year, we'd have:

Damon, Nady, Abreu, Matsui (as DH)

for OF.

That's not too shabby if they can live up to their names
Would you keep Posada at catcher then?

YankeePride1967
08-07-08, 05:26 PM
In the slight chance we can find a taker for Matsui, I'd re-sign him.

AcidLake
08-07-08, 05:27 PM
Would you keep Posada at catcher then?
No, trade him for Puojls!11!!!11!

Yankee Tripper
08-07-08, 05:45 PM
I've said all along, offer him arbitration - if he takes it great, you get him for one more year, if doesn't you get some draft picks when he signs elsewhere.

He's still productive but his numbers are declining almost every year and I don't want to lock into him beyond 2009.

Yankees1962
08-07-08, 06:03 PM
If he takes a two year contract then Cashman has to think about it, especially if they don't get Teixeira.

apalradio
08-07-08, 06:22 PM
I've said all along, offer him arbitration - if he takes it great, you get him for one more year, if doesn't you get some draft picks when he signs elsewhere.

He's still productive but his numbers are declining almost every year and I don't want to lock into him beyond 2009.He's pacing ahead of last year in HR's and BA, he'll drive in 100 runs again this year, his OPS is still in the 800's, and he can still even steal 20 bases. His declining numbers are more than respectable in our lineup, and I wouldn't dismiss the opportunity to sign him up for another couple of years, especially since he's indicated a desire to remain. Players who like playing here and can perform under the Yankee spotlight are a valuable commodity.

themgmt
08-07-08, 06:32 PM
Abreu/Nady on the corners and Damon in center is pretty good offense and defense all around.

Yankee Tripper
08-07-08, 06:36 PM
He's pacing ahead of last year in HR's and BA, he'll drive in 100 runs again this year, his OPS is still in the 800's, and he can still even steal 20 bases. His declining numbers are more than respectable in our lineup, and I wouldn't dismiss the opportunity to sign him up for another couple of years, especially since he's indicated a desire to remain. Players who like playing here and can perform under the Yankee spotlight are a valuable commodity.
Actually I'd kind of forgotten how hot he's been lately. I was recalling the player whose walk rate had declined significantly in each of the past 2 years and whose average had dipped into the .270s and was posting one of the lowest slugging percentage of his career since he'd become a regular.

He continues this pace the rest of the year, I'll probably need to re-think my stance on him.

nnysiny
08-07-08, 06:48 PM
Abreu looks like he genuinely likes to play for the Yankees. however, i think a multi-year offer from another team will make him change his mind

JL25and3
08-07-08, 06:50 PM
Actually I'd kind of forgotten how hot he's been lately. I was recalling the player whose walk rate had declined significantly in each of the past 2 years and whose average had dipped into the .270s and was posting one of the lowest slugging percentage of his career since he'd become a regular.

He continues this pace the rest of the year, I'll probably need to re-think my stance on him.He'd look like a better player if they stopped batting him third. I'd love to see him batting second, but that's not going to happen.

JOE COOL
08-07-08, 06:55 PM
Would you keep Posada at catcher then?

No. Posada is a defensive liability at catcher. He can't throw anyone out. Let Giambi walk and have Posada play 1st base. Then sign Pudge and Molina to alternate as catchers. Both of them have great arms and Pudge can still hit, although Molina is not too shabby with the bat.

genius-24
08-07-08, 07:19 PM
If he'd do 2 years/$16 million I'd bite
Highly, highly doubt it.

YanksFan1992
08-07-08, 08:34 PM
No. Posada is a defensive liability at catcher. He can't throw anyone out. Let Giambi walk and have Posada play 1st base. Then sign Pudge and Molina to alternate as catchers. Both of them have great arms and Pudge can still hit, although Molina is not too shabby with the bat.

Sorry, I was trying to say that in a sort of a sarcastic manner.

If Matsui is DH, then Posada would likely have to play first, and that would mean we couldn't pursue Teixeira. Going with a lineup with Damon in center, Matsui at DH and Posada at 1B is a slew of injuries waiting to happen in my opinion.

JavyVazquezIsSick
08-07-08, 08:40 PM
Sorry Bobby.

kan_t
08-07-08, 08:44 PM
Thanks but no thanks.

We don't need another DH.

YESSIR!
08-07-08, 08:47 PM
Welcome back. 2-3 more years of your service? Don't mind if I do.

rajah
08-07-08, 08:49 PM
Abreu/Nady on the corners and Damon in center is pretty good offense and defense all around.

Are you kidding me? What is the matter with you folks finding Damon an acceptable CFer? Do you watch any games? Do you watch this guy throw the ball? There isn't an all around worse regular defensive CFer in the game than Damon is now.

I assure you that the Y's will not head into 2008 with Damon penciled in as the CFer. He is out there now as an interim or emergency fill-in because of Melky's collapse.

b_joseph
08-07-08, 08:50 PM
I quite like the idea of Getting draft picks for Abreu and Giambi.

Abreu will be a Met next year.

kan_t
08-07-08, 08:52 PM
I know his bat is still decent. But signing him will put our OF defence into disaster.

themgmt
08-07-08, 08:52 PM
This thread has been made 3 different times and each time I say sign him, as long as they have no delusions of him being the 3 hole hitter.

Damon
Jeter
Texeira
A-Rod
Matsui
Nady
Abreu
Cano
Posada

No outs in that lineup. If he wants anything more than two years let him walk.

themgmt
08-07-08, 08:56 PM
Are you kidding me? What is the matter with you folks finding Damon an acceptable CFer? Do you watch any games? Do you watch this guy throw the ball? There isn't an all around worse regular defensive CFer in the game than Damon is now.

I assure you that the Y's will not head into 2008 with Damon penciled in as the CFer. He is out there now as an interim or emergency fill-in because of Melky's collapse.

You said that before in the other thread. Damon is passable in CF. He has enough range and can hit the cut off man. The 10 extra runs he allows over the course of the year is far less than the number of runs you gain from having Nady/Abreu/Damon/Matsui as opposed to just Damon/Melky/Nady. If it's tight and late, you go to the defensive replacement, not that complicated

JDPNYY
08-07-08, 08:58 PM
Resign? This is his last year?

YanksFan1992
08-07-08, 08:58 PM
This thread has been made 3 different times and each time I say sign him, as long as they have no delusions of him being the 3 hole hitter.

Damon
Jeter
Texeira
A-Rod
Matsui
Nady
Abreu
Cano
Posada

No outs in that lineup. If he wants anything more than two years let him walk.

Yeah, but we probably won't throw out a runner for the entire year.

JDPNYY
08-07-08, 08:59 PM
This thread has been made 3 different times and each time I say sign him, as long as they have no delusions of him being the 3 hole hitter.

Damon
Jeter
Texeira
A-Rod
Matsui
Nady
Abreu
Cano
Posada

No outs in that lineup. If he wants anything more than two years let him walk.

This thread has been made 3 times now?

themgmt
08-07-08, 09:00 PM
Yeah, but we probably won't throw out a runner for the entire year.

What's the difference, Damon would still be in left if he isn't in center. Nady has a good arm, Abreu has a good arm, that's 2 good arms.

Damon/Melky/Abreu
Nady/Damon/Abreu

Not much difference defensively.

Nady > Damon
Damon < Melky
Abreu = Abreu

rajah
08-07-08, 09:02 PM
The question is not Melky vs. Damon. The way Melky has hit since May makes him unacceptable too, I agree. The question is whether the Y's can be satisfied with Damon in CF. The answer is no.

Melky will get another chance this year. Gardner might as well. But the Y's are not going into next year with Damon as their CFer. Forget that. Cashman will not find that acceptable.

The difference is the difference between LF and CF. There are more chances in CF and there are more long throws from CF. Anyway, Damon was a defensive liability in LF. The poster said that the Y's would have a good defensive and offensive OF with Damon, Nady and Abreu. The defensive part is ridiculous.

themgmt
08-07-08, 09:03 PM
This thread has been made 3 times now?

But worded differently.

8-2-08
Will Abreu be back next year? (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=113282)

7-21-08
Bobby Abreu: Do we resign? (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=112963)

Bobby is Popular

themgmt
08-07-08, 09:05 PM
The question is not Melky vs. Damon. The way Melky has hit since May makes him unacceptable too, I agree. The question is whether the Y's can be satisfied with Damon in CF. The answer is no.

Melky will get another chance this year. Gardner might as well. But the Y's are not going into next year with Damon as their CFer. Forget that. Cashman will not find that acceptable.

Of course if they find a better OF they should sign him, but the difference in the two proposed defensive outfields is negligible.

kan_t
08-07-08, 09:07 PM
Not much difference defensively.

Nady > Damon
Damon < Melky
Abreu = Abreu
No, Abreu is declining.

So it should be

Nady > Damon
Damon <<<<< Melky
Abreu (this year) < Abreu (next year)

And it's not only about arm when we are talking about defence, such as range.

JDPNYY
08-07-08, 09:08 PM
But worded differently.

8-2-08
Will Abreu be back next year? (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=113282)

7-21-08
Bobby Abreu: Do we resign? (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=112963)

Bobby is Popular

Wow. Maybe the kid can start another thread to get it back to an even number.

YanksFan1992
08-07-08, 09:09 PM
What's the difference, Damon would still be in left if he isn't in center. Nady has a good arm, Abreu has a good arm, that's 2 good arms.

Damon/Melky/Abreu
Nady/Damon/Abreu

Not much difference defensively.

Nady > Damon
Damon < Melky
Abreu = Abreu

I was referring to Posada behind the plate, not the outfield. ;)

YanksFan1992
08-07-08, 09:09 PM
Wow. Maybe the kid can start another thread to get it back to an even number.
Guess I've got a nickname now.

Art Vanderlay
08-07-08, 09:10 PM
If he accepts a one year deal its a no brainer, you resign him.

If he wants a 3 year deal its a no brainer, you let him walk.

The big question is what do you do if he wants 2 years? Its a tough call.

rajah
08-07-08, 09:15 PM
Of course if they find a better OF they should sign him, but the difference in the two proposed defensive outfields is negligible.

No it isn't "negligible". If Melky were hitting as he did last year, the Y's would be playing him in CF. He is on the bench right now because his offense has collapsed.

The point is that the Y's will have to make it a priority to find an adequate defensive CFer if they don't think Gardner or Melky can provide adequate offense and they don't think that Jackson will be ready. They will not count on Damon. They will have to sign or trade for someone. They are not going to have the worst defensive CFer in the MLB. That is why they let Bernie go.

themgmt
08-07-08, 09:30 PM
If you say so

NYYFAN
08-07-08, 10:33 PM
2 years at 12.5 per or 1 year at 14 million with an option...otherwise see ya

gregzzy22
08-07-08, 11:49 PM
2 years, first year $12 mil guaranteed; second, $12 mil option or no go. Don't get me wrong I love Abreu but we can't have another possible DH on the team beyond 09'.

surge511
08-07-08, 11:59 PM
I think a lot of it depends on whether Posada is able to catch. If the Yanks are confident that he can, then we can sign Tex and re-sign Abreu. If he can't, then we are going to run into a bit of a logjam. However, I think Posada getting the surgery done early gives him a much better chance of being behind the plate next year. Abreu for 2 years wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, and Nady can go a whole year or half year until AJax is ready at the end of '09 or beginning of '10. Also having Melky as the 4th OFer gives us good speed, good defense, a reliable bat off the bench, and great insurance if someone else goes down.

THEBOSS84
08-08-08, 12:02 AM
2 years, first year $12 mil guaranteed; second, $12 mil option or no go. Don't get me wrong I love Abreu but we can't have another possible DH on the team beyond 09'.

This is the ideal deal for the Yankees. I agree with this. I may offer more guaranteed $. Probably the 16 he got this year, with no buyout if they decline the option.

flymick24
08-08-08, 12:54 AM
no no no

KeithF40
08-08-08, 04:46 AM
Damon is not passable in CF, he belongs in left. Abreu depends on what they get in terms of other FAs like Tex or a left fielder. If they are desperate, like they were with Posada, they will offer him a decent arb number around 13. I dont think any other teams are gonna offer him a long term contract at a number around that so hell take it. If not we get the picks. Bradley is a FA.

rajah
08-08-08, 08:36 AM
I think a lot of it depends on whether Posada is able to catch. If the Yanks are confident that he can, then we can sign Tex and re-sign Abreu. If he can't, then we are going to run into a bit of a logjam. However, I think Posada getting the surgery done early gives him a much better chance of being behind the plate next year. Abreu for 2 years wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, and Nady can go a whole year or half year until AJax is ready at the end of '09 or beginning of '10. Also having Melky as the 4th OFer gives us good speed, good defense, a reliable bat off the bench, and great insurance if someone else goes down.

1) Melky does not seem to be a "reliable bat" or "great insurance" right now, does he?

2) Signing Abreu would mean the Y's have the 4 corner OFers under contract next year that they have now, including Damon and Matsui as well as Nady. I think that is probably one more than they will want even with the DH availabble. Nady has the arm to play RF, so Abreu probably will not be re-signed. I suspect that if he is, either Damon or Matsui is to be traded and a real CFer secured.

adamsilver
08-08-08, 08:40 AM
Definitely re-sign Abreu. Time to get do something about 1B and sign Teixeira...finishes our infield perfectly. Abreu has a great arm and I want to keep Nady in LF. Three good defensive outfield arms, good bats in Nady and Abreu, let Damon and Matsui share time at DH with Posada when he's not catching.

Damon
Jeter
Abreu
A-Rod
Teixeira
Nady
Posada
Cano
Melky

Ynkcpt23
08-08-08, 09:24 AM
Abreu/Nady on the corners and Damon in center is pretty good offense and defense all around.

Damon in center is good defense?? Limp noodle arm would allow more runs than he could possibly produce...I'll take a hit off of what you're smoking.

Ynkcpt23
08-08-08, 09:30 AM
Definitely re-sign Abreu. Time to get do something about 1B and sign Teixeira...finishes our infield perfectly. Abreu has a great arm and I want to keep Nady in LF. Three good defensive outfield arms, good bats in Nady and Abreu, let Damon and Matsui share time at DH with Posada when he's not catching.

Damon
Jeter
Abreu
A-Rod
Teixeira
Nady
Posada
Cano
Melky

As much as I think that the Yanks will be in the running, I don't think they land Teixeira. Everybody makes it sound like this is a done deal...

I agree with BOSS--if we can keep Abreu without losing our collective minds contract-wise (Max 2 yrs, 12-15 mil per) I think we should do that. He's been pretty darn good in NY, no reason to think he can't have two more solid years in him.

themgmt
08-08-08, 09:39 AM
"Limp noodle arm" will still be in LF anyway. I think the difference in range is minimal. Here's a little math. Count how many "runs" are scored on limp noodle arm in CF this year that Melky would have saved. Then subtract the number of runs Nady saves over "limp noodle arm" in LF. Then tally the number runs and RBI Abreu will provide over Melky. I'll be really generous and say Melky's arm saves 1 run every week over Damon's arm. Say Nady's overall defense saves 12 runs over Abreu in RF. Say Nady's arm saves one over Damon every 3 weeks. Then consider Melky could still be a defensive replacement in CF close and late.


210 (Abreu Runs + RBI) - 105 (Melky Runs + RBI) = 105

24 (Melky runs saved over Damon) + 12 (Nady runs saved over Abreu) - 8 (Nady runs saved over Damon) = 28


A little more math

105 > 28


You may be losing some runs in CF, but you gain a couple in LF. Now of course I'm just making numbers up and I'm sure it would be a lot closer but the justification stands

Ynkcpt23
08-08-08, 09:56 AM
"Limp noodle arm" will still be in LF anyway. I think the difference in range is minimal. Here's a little math. Count how many "runs" are scored on limp noodle arm in CF this year that Melky would have saved. Then subtract the number of runs Nady saves over "limp noodle arm" in LF. Then tally the number runs and RBI Abreu will provide over Melky. I'll be really generous and say Melky's arm saves 1 run every week over Damon's arm. Say Nady's overall defense saves 12 runs over Abreu in RF. Say Nady's arm saves one over Damon every 3 weeks. Then consider Melky could still be a defensive replacement in CF close and late.


210 (Abreu Runs + RBI) - 105 (Melky Runs + RBI) = 105

24 (Melky runs saved over Damon) + 12 (Nady runs saved over Abreu) - 8 (Nady runs saved over Damon) = 28


A little more math

105 > 28


You may be losing some runs in CF, but you gain a couple in LF. Now of course I'm just making numbers up and I'm sure it would be a lot closer but the justification stands

Well, I appreciate the effort you put into that post, but I still think that (despite his offensive woes, which we've all duly noted) Melky is best suited out of this group to play CF. Now if they can find a reasonable replacement on the market, that's another thing. I think a 23 yr. old with a great arm and good+ range is the way to go until Jackson is ready--and that could be 2 years from now.

Now I'm not a mathematician (though my father is), but 105 > 28 I can handle. Your numbers are the product of a terrific imagination...

adamsilver
08-08-08, 10:41 AM
I must agree that Melky is best suited to play center. He's also a fine fit for the 9-hole.

THEBOSS84
08-08-08, 10:41 AM
I must agree that Melky is best suited to play center. He's also a fine fit for the 9-hole.

He's best suited to ride the bench and bat never.

JL25and3
08-08-08, 10:43 AM
Well, I appreciate the effort you put into that post, but I still think that (despite his offensive woes, which we've all duly noted) Melky is best suited out of this group to play CF. Now if they can find a reasonable replacement on the market, that's another thing. I think a 23 yr. old with a great arm and good+ range is the way to go until Jackson is ready--and that could be 2 years from now.

Now I'm not a mathematician (though my father is), but 105 > 28 I can handle. Your numbers are the product of a terrific imagination...Melky is the best defensive center fielder, no question. But it's not enough to carry his putrid bat.

As for signing or trading for a better CF: whom did you have in mind? In this year's FA class (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2002/02/2008-09-free-agents.html), only Rocco Baldelli would be plausible as a center fielder - and that's assuming that he can still play every day and that, if he can, the Rays don't re-sign him.

That leaves a trade. Any ideas?

Realistically, the Yankees will have to choose between Damon and Melky next year. At this point, Melky has to prove that he's able to play in the major leagues. Until then, I'll take Damon, limp noodle arm and all.

JL25and3
08-08-08, 10:45 AM
He's best suited to ride the bench and bat never.Exactly. He's not a fine fit for the 9-hole, though he's not bad for the 25-hole.

Ynkcpt23
08-08-08, 10:47 AM
Melky is the best defensive center fielder, no question. But it's not enough to carry his putrid bat.

As for signing or trading for a better CF: whom did you have in mind? In this year's FA class (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2002/02/2008-09-free-agents.html), only Rocco Baldelli would be plausible as a center fielder - and that's assuming that he can still play every day and that, if he can, the Rays don't re-sign him.

That leaves a trade. Any ideas?

Realistically, the Yankees will have to choose between Damon and Melky next year. At this point, Melky has to prove that he's able to play in the major leagues. Until then, I'll take Damon, limp noodle arm and all.

That's fair. And no, I didn't have anybody in mind. Many of us have said it's an unbelievably weak market for that position, which I agree with. As far as a trade I wouldn't know where to start...

Obviously Damon has it all over Melky in terms of offensive production. With the addition of Nady we've temporarily gotten better defensively. Abreu and Nady have decent arms, but there is no assurance that Bobby will re-sign whether he hopes to or not. If you bench Melky and lose Abreu, we could be in a world of hurt defensively.

4bronxbombers
08-08-08, 11:09 AM
Could a mod please change it to re-sign instead of resign.

Thanks in advance.

:doh:

JDPNYY
08-08-08, 11:34 AM
:doh:

He has the Mods on speed dial.

fredgmuggs
08-08-08, 11:57 AM
He has the Mods on speed dial.No wonder why poor ol' Bub was looking so forward to his vacation.

genius-24
08-08-08, 12:18 PM
As for signing or trading for a better CF: whom did you have in mind? In this year's FA class (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2002/02/2008-09-free-agents.html), only Rocco Baldelli would be plausible as a center fielder - and that's assuming that he can still play every day and that, if he can, the Rays don't re-sign him..
How about Milton Bradely? His stats look pretty good. He has shown he can play CF in his years with LA. He is a headcase but we can figure that out.

JOBA RULES
08-08-08, 12:18 PM
Are you kidding me? What is the matter with you folks finding Damon an acceptable CFer? Do you watch any games? Do you watch this guy throw the ball? There isn't an all around worse regular defensive CFer in the game than Damon is now.

I assure you that the Y's will not head into 2008 with Damon penciled in as the CFer. He is out there now as an interim or emergency fill-in because of Melky's collapse.

He's right....I think I have a better arm then Damon

JDPNYY
08-08-08, 12:20 PM
No wonder why poor ol' Bub was looking so forward to his vacation.

You have to feel for the guy. He only gets 92 vacation days a year. Remember that time he had to work a 5 day week?

Jasbro
08-08-08, 12:24 PM
2 years at 12.5 per or 1 year at 14 million with an option...otherwise see ya

That sounds about right.

nnysiny
08-08-08, 01:07 PM
That sounds about right.
sounds like a decent deal to me, too

R.V.47
08-08-08, 01:12 PM
Abreu has been a really good solid player for us. It has nothing to do with him but Id just like to see the team go in a different direction and start to bring in new faces and get younger. Maybe 1 year for Abreu but I doubt he takes it.

Ynkcpt23
08-08-08, 01:20 PM
Abreu has been a really good solid player for us. It has nothing to do with him but Id just like to see the team go in a different direction and start to bring in new faces and get younger. Maybe 1 year for Abreu but I doubt he takes it.

I respect that opinion and I'm sure plenty agree with you. The only reason I'm for bringing him back is the dearth of OF help on the FA market. If we get him for two years rather than three I'd be all over it.

rajah
08-08-08, 01:49 PM
This season is not over. When it is, the CF situation will be appraised.

1) Melky, for better or for worse, is going to get more at bats this year. Maybe he can convince Girardi and the front office to bring him back. I have never been a big fan of this guy, but I think that he can be better than he is now playing and that it is not yet clear that he will not make a come back from offensive ineptitude to offensive mediocrity and thus be viewed as the stop gap for Jackson.

2) I am not sure that Gardner's struggles have caused the Yankees to give up on him. It is possible that he will be brought back to spring training for a competition with Melky and perhaps some other mediocre offensive, but skilled defensive, player that the Yankees have secured from free agency or for little from some other team.

3) A trade can be made and will be made if necessary. I'm not inclined to review major league rosters to suggest several, but I know that they are there.

4) I grant that one consideration the Y's might make before trading Damon in the off season is his utility as an emergency CFer. But I refuse to believe that they will have him as the primary or even secondary option going into spring training.

P.S. Rocco can't play regularly with his disease, and Bradley days as a CFer must be over or he would not have been a DH for the Rangers this year.

yankeesrule2000
08-08-08, 02:38 PM
I would offer Bobby a 2 year deal worth 28 mil...

hatfieldms
08-08-08, 02:53 PM
I think you definitely bring him back. He is still productive at the plate and though his defense isnt great by any means, it isnt terrible. And he has a strong ass arm

Ynkcpt23
08-08-08, 02:57 PM
This season is not over. When it is, the CF situation will be appraised.

1) Melky, for better or for worse, is going to get more at bats this year. Maybe he can convince Girardi and the front office to bring him back. I have never been a big fan of this guy, but I think that he can be better than he is now playing and that it is not yet clear that he will not make a come back from offensive ineptitude to offensive mediocrity and thus be viewed as the stop gap for Jackson.

2) I am not sure that Gardner's struggles have caused the Yankees to give up on him. It is possible that he will be brought back to spring training for a competition with Melky and perhaps some other mediocre offensive, but skilled defensive, player that the Yankees have secured from free agency or for little from some other team.

3) A trade can be made and will be made if necessary. I'm not inclined to review major league rosters to suggest several, but I know that they are there.

4) I grant that one consideration the Y's might make before trading Damon in the off season is his utility as an emergency CFer. But I refuse to believe that they will have him as the primary or even secondary option going into spring training.

P.S. Rocco can't play regularly with his disease, and Bradley days as a CFer must be over or he would not have been a DH for the Rangers this year.

Completely agree with points 1 and 2. Like you, I have not actively looked for potential trades--I don't share your confidence that there is much out there, so I guess point 3 is a minor contention. I'm not sure what Damon's value would be with only one year left on his contract and the $$ we're paying him, so I think you're spot on in that he will be back and his offensive capability makes him highly valuable. I also agree that CF ain't happening.

Excellent points in your post script. Great post.

Dr. Gonzo
08-08-08, 02:57 PM
Abreu/Nady on the corners and Damon in center is pretty good offense and defense all around.damon will fall apart at some point but melky or gardner can fill in for a while i guess.

themgmt
08-08-08, 02:59 PM
damon will fall apart at some point but melky or gardner can fill in for a while i guess.

All the more reason to have 3 major league outfielders and a back up.

Ynkcpt23
08-08-08, 03:00 PM
All the more reason to have 3 major league outfielders and a back up.

Good call. Hopefully next year we won't be carrying 50 pitchers and only two bench guys..:mad:

primetime714
08-08-08, 03:28 PM
I'd offer Abreu arbitration (i.e. a 1 year deal) and nothing more. If he accepts I'd take him back otherwise, let's move on.

CF is the most interesting spot in the Yankees lineup for next year. This seems to be the one position where we don't have that many good options.

Free Agency- not much available the best of the bunch is Mike Cameron, Rocco Baldelli, and Mark Kotsay. Any of them might make sense on a 1-year deal to at the very least give Melky and Gardner some competition, but all come with issues and none of them are very good options. Milton Bradley is another option, but its quite a stretch of the imagination to believe that he can play CF on a consistent basis. I think he has worked out so well for the Rangers this year because they didn't need him to play the field.

Trade Market- there could be some good options available like David Dejesus, Chone Figgins (Brandon Wood will play 3B for the Angels next year), or possibly Nick Swisher. However those guys would all cost a decent amount in terms of prospects. If Swisher is available I might go after him though. Cheaper options could include the likes of Andruw Jones (if LAD picks up a portion of the bill) or Juan Pierre (not much of an upgrade).

The best route is probably to take a chance on a 1-year solution type who at the very least can provide some competition for Melky and Gardner. It might also make sense to bring in a good backup corner OF like a Juan Rivera who could allow Damon to play CF if none of our other options are working out.

OldYankeeFan
08-08-08, 07:33 PM
damon will fall apart at some point but melky or gardner can fill in for a while i guess.

I'd start with Damon in CF, keep Melky as strictly a 4th ourfielder, and if Damon does fall apart at some point bring up AJax for a stint.

JL25and3
08-08-08, 08:12 PM
How about Milton Bradely? His stats look pretty good. He has shown he can play CF in his years with LA. He is a headcase but we can figure that out.My understanding is that Bradley is nothing remotely resembling a center fielder anymore. I don't think his knee injury last year helped any.

ppa79
08-08-08, 08:13 PM
thanks but no thanks. We got your replacement in Nady.

primetime714
08-08-08, 08:48 PM
My understanding is that Bradley is nothing remotely resembling a center fielder anymore. I don't think his knee injury last year helped any.

Yea Bradley hasn't really played CF since 2005. You can even make an argument that Bradley isn't an OF and is more of a DH now. Not because he is a louse in the field, but because every time he has been a regular OF he has suffered injury problems. Playing the DH this year has really helped him stay healthy.

rajah
08-08-08, 10:29 PM
Have you folks watched Damon playing CF tonight? Had, say, the Angels' CFer (Torri Hunter), been backing up Ian, his game and thus the game might have been totally different. CF defense can determine the outcomes of games. You can't just put the 9 best hitters out there as if it were a video game.

primetime714
08-09-08, 12:39 AM
Have you folks watched Damon playing CF tonight? Had, say, the Angels' CFer (Torri Hunter), been backing up Ian, his game and thus the game might have been totally different. CF defense can determine the outcomes of games. You can't just put the 9 best hitters out there as if it were a video game.

Damon was playing LF and not even Tori Hunter's defense could've saved Kennedy, he was terrible.

themgmt
08-09-08, 09:29 AM
Have you folks watched Damon playing CF tonight? Had, say, the Angels' CFer (Torri Hunter), been backing up Ian, his game and thus the game might have been totally different. CF defense can determine the outcomes of games. You can't just put the 9 best hitters out there as if it were a video game.
Considering he was playing LF...

This doesn't exactly make me confident in your observations.

rajah
08-09-08, 05:36 PM
So I made a mistake in what I typed. The point stands: Damon is not a CF-quality outfielder defensively. Teams put their weakest OFers in left, so he may be average out there, but his play in left shows he is not a quality CFer.

And weak defense can undermine a pitcher's confidence in critical situations early in games.

Anyone want to debate these substantive points?

I'm not asking you to take my word for Damon being weak defensively. I'm asking you to watch and make your own judgments.

hellonewman
08-09-08, 05:43 PM
No thanks on Abreu. He's still decent but the great virtue he used to have being an OBP monster really doesn't apply anymore. Aging, declining, half-speed players are the kind of player the Yankees need to be getting away from.

ppa79
08-09-08, 05:55 PM
I don't want you, I want the picks.

RevoWution
08-09-08, 05:59 PM
I say re-sign Mr. Abreu. We don't have time to muck around with draft picks :)

primetime714
08-09-08, 09:57 PM
So I made a mistake in what I typed. The point stands: Damon is not a CF-quality outfielder defensively. Teams put their weakest OFers in left, so he may be average out there, but his play in left shows he is not a quality CFer.

And weak defense can undermine a pitcher's confidence in critical situations early in games.

Anyone want to debate these substantive points?

I'm not asking you to take my word for Damon being weak defensively. I'm asking you to watch and make your own judgments.

Damon is at least average probably above average in LF. Few LF's have his range. His arm is terrible, but he can still cover a lot of ground which is the most important thing for a LF or CF.

Defensively he is not a great option in CF I totally agree with that, but I don't think he is unusable there. I'd prefer to keep him in LF, but the problem is there aren't a whole lot of good CF options. Melky and Gardner can't hit, the FA market is very weak, and do we really want to trade for someone with Jackson possibly ready a year from now?

ppa79
08-10-08, 09:46 AM
At this stage of Abreu's career, the picks are more valuable than Abreu. The guy isn't gonna get better, he is gonna gradually decline.

rajah
08-10-08, 10:57 AM
I love watching the guy play, but a gradual decline is probably starting.

And my general point has been that having Nady on the team significantly reduces the need for Abreu and the likelihood that he will return. Damon (who is no longer a CFer) and Matsui can cover DH and LF, while Nady has the arm for RF. Even assuming Posada can catch regularly rather than DH, there is no crying need for Abreu unless someone is traded.

Even apart from the picks, the money can probably be better spent on pitching and Texeira.

ArodMVP217
08-10-08, 05:18 PM
Even apart from the picks, the money can probably be better spent on pitching and Texeira.

indeed. Simply stated; Nady let's us offer less money/years than we would otherwise offer him had(future) we not had() nady

GoYanks
08-11-08, 06:48 AM
I love watching the guy play, but a gradual decline is probably starting.

And my general point has been that having Nady on the team significantly reduces the need for Abreu and the likelihood that he will return. Damon (who is no longer a CFer) and Matsui can cover DH and LF, while Nady has the arm for RF. Even assuming Posada can catch regularly rather than DH, there is no crying need for Abreu unless someone is traded.

Even apart from the picks, the money can probably be better spent on pitching and Teixeira.

Ditto.

justinvarnes
08-11-08, 08:05 AM
the goal here is to win as many games now while preparing to win games in years to come.

Damon in CF (1 year left)
Nady in LF (arb eligible)
Abreu in RF (SHORT deal)

that gives the team a really good OF offense and an OK OF defense for next year.

that also keeps the Yanks in position to let AJAX take over once Damon either fades (he's only leading the AL in AVG and has the #1 OBP for an AL leadoff hitter) or his contract expires next year. that gives the Yanks a chance to have AJAX get a clear shot at the Bronx. he and Nady could be in the OF for quite awhile.

Abreu is a solid hitter and although he's aging there's no one in the FA market that is clearly better right now. he's comfy here and although he can be streaky, he has carried this offense at times this season.

nady in rf, melky/gardner in cf and damon in lf is a weaker all around OF (defense plus offense) to me.

so the question for me then becomes: Will Abreu take a 2 yr deal with a team option 3rd? by the 2nd yr they'll know whether they want to lock up Nady (is this a freak year?) and can evaluate AJAX. in the meantime Damon and Matsui will be gone in the OF.

justinvarnes
08-11-08, 08:09 AM
"Simply stated; Nady let's us offer less money/years than we would otherwise offer him had(future) we not had() nady"

agree 100%. I just don't see who would be the 3rd OF. melky? Matsui? Gardner?

who am I missing?

JL25and3
08-11-08, 08:12 AM
Have you folks watched Damon playing CF tonight? Had, say, the Angels' CFer (Torri Hunter), been backing up Ian, his game and thus the game might have been totally different. CF defense can determine the outcomes of games. You can't just put the 9 best hitters out there as if it were a video game.You're right, there will be occasional plays that Torii Hunter will make but Damon won't. Melky's not nearly as good as Hunter, but he'll make a couple more plays than Damon, also. No one's arguing that.

But if you're going to point out every questionable play Damon makes in the outfield, I'll point out every time Melky pops up weakly - or grounds out, or K's - with men in scoring position. Who do you think is going to come out ahead?

rajah
08-11-08, 09:11 AM
You're right, there will be occasional plays that Torii Hunter will make but Damon won't. Melky's not nearly as good as Hunter, but he'll make a couple more plays than Damon, also. No one's arguing that.

But if you're going to point out every questionable play Damon makes in the outfield, I'll point out every time Melky pops up weakly - or grounds out, or K's - with men in scoring position. Who do you think is going to come out ahead?

Where did I state that Melky should be playing as he is currently hitting? My comment had nothing to do with Melky. It was about Damon being nothing more than an emergency fill-in in CF at this point, not someone a championship-seeking team would ever pencil in as the starting CFer for the year.

If you are going to quote me, please read the context of my comments in the thread. If you want to post against Melky, fine, but don't use me to do so. I am not even critical of putting Melky on the bench right now. This thread is about planning for next year in the OF, not about making do this year.

And, justinvarnes, there are other CF options out there for next year, as prior posts have suggested. Cashman wasn't satisfied with Bernie's defense and arm in CF, and he won't be satisfied with Damon's either. You can't just put the 9 best hitters out there as if this is a computer game. Defense does have relevance.

justtxyank
08-11-08, 09:13 AM
So I made a mistake in what I typed. The point stands: Damon is not a CF-quality outfielder defensively. Teams put their weakest OFers in left, so he may be average out there, but his play in left shows he is not a quality CFer.

And weak defense can undermine a pitcher's confidence in critical situations early in games.

Anyone want to debate these substantive points?

I'm not asking you to take my word for Damon being weak defensively. I'm asking you to watch and make your own judgments.

Saying that his bad defense in CF cost a player a game and had the other team's CF been in instead we might have won is more than a "mistype."

rajah
08-11-08, 09:22 AM
Let me explain it one more time:

The point of that post is that Damon is not a CF-quality OFer, whether he is playing in LF or CF. Hunter is a CF-quality OFer. Having Damon in CF while the other team has Hunter or Crisp or Ellsbury or Upton etc. means that the Y's are giving something up. And what they are giving up could cost them critical games.

I am aware of the difference between LF and CF. I am also aware that teams place their worst OFers in LF, certainly their worst OF arms. So Damon can equal the other team's LFers, roughly at least. But his play in LF shows that he does not equal the other teams CFers. Do you get it now? Or do you want to continue to suggest that I am confused about what is LF and what is CF?

MTYankee23
08-11-08, 10:22 AM
Fortunately, they don't have to make this decision until after the season, when they'll have a much better idea of how Abreu, Damon, Nady, and Matsui finished, how the trade and FA markets for 1B/DH/OF shakes out, how Posada has responded to surgery, how prospects have finished their respective seasons, etc.

With Abreu, Damon, Matsui, and Posada all on the wrong side of 30, it wouldn't be the worst thing to keep them all on board in case one or more of them break down at some point. Nady provides a tremendous luxury in that he can play both corners (and even 1B I believe).

justtxyank
08-11-08, 11:08 AM
Let me explain it one more time:

The point of that post is that Damon is not a CF-quality OFer, whether he is playing in LF or CF. Hunter is a CF-quality OFer. Having Damon in CF while the other team has Hunter or Crisp or Ellsbury or Upton etc. means that the Y's are giving something up. And what they are giving up could cost them critical games.

I am aware of the difference between LF and CF. I am also aware that teams place their worst OFers in LF, certainly their worst OF arms. So Damon can equal the other team's LFers, roughly at least. But his play in LF shows that he does not equal the other teams CFers. Do you get it now? Or do you want to continue to suggest that I am confused about what is LF and what is CF?

I don't think you are confused. I think you are stretching a little bit and kind of jumbled your thoughts when you typed and therefore made a point that is nonsensical.

Damon is not a sub-par or average left fielder, he's a good one. He has good range and has a good glove. His only problem is his arm. In CF he is average with average range and a bad arm.

His defensive shortcomings are way overblown by Yankee fans for some reason. No, he is not a gold glover in CF, but his play in LF is good, so your post is bogus. How his play in LF in a game showed that if he were in CF instead of the other team's CF we would have been hurt more or whatever is ridiculous. He's good in LF>

Blazer
08-11-08, 12:46 PM
Abreu is declining to the point where he'll be an average DH in a couple years. I like Nady in the OF over BA for the remainder of his peak years, 3 or so.

rajah
08-11-08, 01:05 PM
I don't think you are confused. I think you are stretching a little bit and kind of jumbled your thoughts when you typed and therefore made a point that is nonsensical.

Damon is not a sub-par or average left fielder, he's a good one. He has good range and has a good glove. His only problem is his arm. In CF he is average with average range and a bad arm.

His defensive shortcomings are way overblown by Yankee fans for some reason. No, he is not a gold glover in CF, but his play in LF is good, so your post is bogus. How his play in LF in a game showed that if he were in CF instead of the other team's CF we would have been hurt more or whatever is ridiculous. He's good in LF>

So you think it is "ridiculous" to evaluate an OFer's capabilities as a CF by how well he plays LF relative to how well other CF-quality OFers would play the position? If so, I despair of your understanding the lesson of his play in that game, or in other games when I have watched him in LF have difficulty tracking balls from a high perch in the Stadium.

As for your assessment of Damon as an OFer, you have a right to your opinion, as I have a right to mine. I will stick by my prediction, however, that the Yankees will not expect Damon to be their primary CFer in the last year of his contract in 2009. If he is on the team, it will be as a LFer, first baseman, and/or DH.

justtxyank
08-11-08, 04:41 PM
I will stick by my prediction, however, that the Yankees will not expect Damon to be their primary CFer in the last year of his contract in 2009. If he is on the team, it will be as a LFer, first baseman, and/or DH.

I'm not going to waste my time debating this, but I do agree with this.

WIZ
08-11-08, 07:08 PM
Offer Abreu arbitration only. If he accepts, great, if not, we get picks.

Yankeesfan811
08-19-08, 05:40 PM
If we can resign abreu to a 1 or 2 year deal, then great....he balances the lineup perfectly and makes batter around him better.

if not, then cut him loose and use Nady damon matsui and gardner.

Yankeesfan924
08-19-08, 05:44 PM
If they re-sign him, welcome back.

If they don't, good luck.

I don't have any problems with Bobby [wallephobia notwithstanding], and I wouldn't mind him back in the Bronx for another year.

ppa79
08-19-08, 08:21 PM
No thanks,

These group of guys arent getting it done. Time to change it up.

YankeeFan66
08-19-08, 08:43 PM
I agree, clean house in the offseason......:eek:

Damon(MVP)
08-19-08, 09:14 PM
His numbers warrant say a 9 or 10 million dollar a year contract, if he is willing to accept then sign him.

Young Steinbrenner
08-23-08, 06:21 AM
Nope...sorry, Bob.

Mark and CC need your money.