PDA

View Full Version : The Official Pudge Rodriguez Performance Thread



Pages : 1 [2]

THEBOSS84
08-21-08, 08:33 AM
Right now Pudge is a Type-B FA. That's good, I'd rather him be type-B than type-A.

Art Vanderlay
08-21-08, 08:37 AM
Not having a healthy Posada will definitly be looked back on as a critical loss. The fact that he still leads all catchers on the team in homers with 3 (I know Pudge has 6 but only 1 with NYY) basically shows why.

No doubt that Posada was a hugh loss. But I still mantain the biggest loss was Matsui. He is the one guy we have in the middle of the lineup with hits with men on base. He's also good situational hitter who is very good at gettting in the runner from third with less than 2 outs.

ArodEra
08-21-08, 10:00 AM
Ha ha, you used 3 times the sample size to compare one player to another.

Ha ha

Ha ha ha

ha

Told you it was for ha-has.
Here's a few more ha-has for ya:

1. 75/35 = 2.14, not 3.

2. Based on what we've seen, if given a little over 2x more at bats, we'd all expect I-Rod to exceed what Moeller has done! Afterall, he is indeed Pudge and he filled a need, goshdarnit! It doesn't matter that Pudge will be stuck on 1 BB till 2010.

3. This deal was a steal no matter the results! Even though Pudge hasn't hit, can't call a good game, and forces a member(s?) of his pitching staff to request another catcher, we filled a need and that's all that matters! The deal looked great at the time, Farn's pitching this year and the bullpen strength (as situated up until the trade) were an illusion, I couldn't have done better if I were GM (that seems to be the inevitable question) and Cashmoney is gold!

yanksphan
08-21-08, 11:56 AM
Told you it was for ha-has.
Here's a few more ha-has for ya:

1. 75/35 = 2.14, not 3.

2. Based on what we've seen, if given a little over 2x more at bats, we'd all expect I-Rod to exceed what Moeller has done! Afterall, he is indeed Pudge and he filled a need, goshdarnit! It doesn't matter that Pudge will be stuck on 1 BB till 2010.

3. This deal was a steal no matter the results! Even though Pudge hasn't hit, can't call a good game, and forces a member(s?) of his pitching staff to request another catcher, we filled a need and that's all that matters! The deal looked great at the time, Farn's pitching this year and the bullpen strength (as situated up until the trade) were an illusion, I couldn't have done better if I were GM (that seems to be the inevitable question) and Cashmoney is gold!

1. I figured with you overblowing sample size, an exaggeration on my part was suitable.

2. Instead of attempting to extrapolate 10 games of sample size over the course of the rest of the season - why not base Pudge's predicted rest of the year production on what he's actually done this entire season already? You know, the stats that are about equal to Derek Jeter's? The 100ish OPS+? Oh right..that would kill your argument.

3. Right, that's what I said. Carry on...

ArodEra
08-21-08, 12:01 PM
1. I figured with you overblowing sample size, an exaggeration on my part was just following the theme.

2. Instead of extrapolating 10 games of sample size over the course of the rest of the season - why not base Pudge's predicted rest of the year production on what he's actually done this entire season already? You know, the stats that are about equal to Derek Jeter's? The 100ish OPS+? Oh right..that would kill your argument.

3. Right, that's what I said. Carry on...
1. I know, it was obvious.

2. You're still stuck on the Jeter comparison, despite what Pudge has done to this point? To make matters worse, two pitchers prefer to pitch to another catcher other than Pudge. I wonder if those pitchers would rather have Betemit or somebody else behind them playing ss instead of Jeter. As for what Pudge does the rest of the year, by this point it hardly matters. Since the trade (and injuries of course) the Yanks have gone downhill including the pen, a pen that was a strength till that point. Plus Pudge has been reduced to a part-timer anyway, since 2/5 of the rotation rather pitch to Molina.

3. I didn't say that you said that. But, it's been implied and actually mentioned by more than a few.

yanksphan
08-21-08, 12:09 PM
1. I know, it was obvious.

2. You're still stuck on the Jeter comparison, despite what Pudge has done to this point? To make matters worse, two pitchers prefer to pitch to another catcher other than Pudge. I wonder if those pitchers would rather have Betemit or somebody else behind them playing ss instead of Jeter. As for what Pudge does the rest of the year, by this point it hardly matters. Since the trade (and injuries of course) the Yanks have gone downhill including the pen, a pen that was a strength till that point. Plus Pudge has been reduced to a part-timer anyway, since 2/5 of the rotation rather pitch to Molina.

3. I didn't say that you said that. But, it's been implied and actually mentioned by more than a few.

2. I'm only "stuck on the Jeter comparison" like you're stuck on analyzing small sample size. What do you mean "to this point"? It's 10 games! I'm sure I could find 10 games where Jeter looks like Tony Womack, and I can find 10 games where he looks like...well, Derek Jeter! That's my point - the 10 games means absolutely nothing when trying to figure out what could happen from here on out.

ArodEra
08-21-08, 12:21 PM
2. I'm only "stuck on the Jeter comparison" like you're stuck on analyzing small sample size. What do you mean "to this point"? It's 10 games! I'm sure I could find 10 games where Jeter looks like Tony Womack, and I can find 10 games where he looks like...well, Derek Jeter! That's my point - the 10 games means absolutely nothing when trying to figure out what could happen from here on out.

What I mean by "to this point" is that Pudge has added no value since he got here and that he's been reduced to a part-time catcher anyway, since Pettitte and Mussina rather not pitch to him. In addition, the bullpen, which was a huge strength of ours, has been disrupted since the trade. Nobody has stepped up to be the 8th inning guy, either because of pressure or they aren't as well equipped as Farns was this year. Roles were abruptly changed.

And it's not "only" 10 games (13 to be exact). At this time of the year 10 (13) games is huge, not "only"; a win or loss here or there, will make or break your season. The "from here on out" becomes insignificant with each loss this time of year. Wasn't that why Cashman got him? For playoff crunch time? To relieve the supposedly inferior Molina of the stress of starting? How's that worked out, considering that Molina still catches 2/5 of the games because pitchers rather not pitch to Pudge?

Pudge has added no value while in pinstripes, regardless that his overall offensive season is comparable to Jeter's. Who cares what he did in Detroit? I only look at what he's done since he got here. In addition to his unproductive bat and seemingly bad game calling, a major strength of the Yankees (bullpen) was disrupted and diminished after the trade and Pudge has no doubt added to the Yankees woes, even if not solely responsible. For anyone to try to justify this trade, based on the results and the coinciding downfall, is either being disingenuous, argumentative or stubborn.....or perhaps a Cashman fanboy. (This is, by no means, a reflection towards you; it's just a general observation).

yanksphan
08-21-08, 12:43 PM
Again, you're basing the value of this trade on such a small sample size.

I'd be surprised if his numbers as a Yankee by the end of the season weren't in line with his numbers as a Tiger.

But we'll see I suppose....

ArodEra
08-21-08, 12:47 PM
Just a little fun fact. This year, in 337 AB's, Pudge has worked the count to 3-1 two times, and 3-0 zero times.

ArodEra
08-21-08, 12:51 PM
Again, you're basing the value of this trade on such a small sample size.

I'd be surprised if his numbers as a Yankee by the end of the season weren't in line with his numbers as a Tiger.

But we'll see I suppose....

Don't get me wrong, as a Yankees fan I don't want Pudge to prove my assesment of this deal correct. I want him to get a hit each and every time out.

I'm just hoping that he doesn't go on a tear after (if) we are eliminated.

R.V.47
08-21-08, 12:53 PM
Just a little fun fact. This year, in 337 AB's, Pudge has worked the count to 3-1 two times, and 3-0 zero times.

Thats pretty terrible, and defintly does not fit in with the usual yankee approach to hitting, at least before this year.

yanksphan
08-21-08, 12:53 PM
I hear ya.

It's just frustrating as a fan when I see a lot of other fans just looking for a scapegoat.

The team as a whole has been lousy, and there's no way to debate that. Some components have contributed more than others - but as a whole, we stink.

Dynasties R Forever
08-21-08, 02:26 PM
Just a little fun fact. This year, in 337 AB's, Pudge has worked the count to 3-1 two times, and 3-0 zero times.

Wait, so this is what matters and not his OPS to date? Well shiver me timbers, I think I know where you're coming from now.

Total squat is what catches your eye...and it actually outweighs what's important.

ArodEra
08-21-08, 03:07 PM
Wait, so this is what matters and not his OPS to date? Well shiver me timbers, I think I know where you're coming from now.

Total squat is what catches your eye...and it actually outweighs what's important.

What was I thinking? In his short-sampled career in pinstripes, Pudge's OBP is .270. SLG .343. making his OPS .613.

Now if only he regains that great eye that made him very selective at the plate and produced a whopping 19 BB as a Tiger, his numbers will go through the roof.

But hey, who am I to complain when his sample size only consists of 13 games, 35 AB's , 2/5 of the staff doesn't want to pitch to him and one of our biggest strengths before the trade, our bullpen, hasn't been the same since. We've only lost 4 1/2 games on the Sox and 7 on the Rays since the trade and it's only August 21, so we'll be alright.

yanksphan
08-21-08, 04:10 PM
Don't forget that Isaac Hayes and Bernie Mac have also died since we got Ivan.

Stoopid Pudge!

jimmykey2
08-21-08, 04:36 PM
What was I thinking? In his short-sampled career in pinstripes, Pudge's OBP is .270. SLG .343. making his OPS .613.

Now if only he regains that great eye that made him very selective at the plate and produced a whopping 19 BB as a Tiger, his numbers will go through the roof.

But hey, who am I to complain when his sample size only consists of 13 games, 35 AB's , 2/5 of the staff doesn't want to pitch to him and one of our biggest strengths before the trade, our bullpen, hasn't been the same since. We've only lost 4 1/2 games on the Sox and 7 on the Rays since the trade and it's only August 21, so we'll be alright.

You forgot Hurricane Katrina (it's retroactive).

Mark19
08-21-08, 08:07 PM
Another Pudge start, another beat down. He really is a bad luck charm.

The Q Bomb
08-21-08, 08:17 PM
<TABLE class=tborder id=post5398425 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_5398425 colSpan=2>But hey, who am I to complain when his sample size only consists of 13 games, 35 AB's , 2/5 of the staff doesn't want to pitch to him and one of our biggest strengths before the trade, our bullpen, hasn't been the same since. We've only lost 4 1/2 games on the Sox and 7 on the Rays since the trade and it's only August 21, so we'll be alright.
<!-- / message --><!-- Sig Was Here --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt2><!--http://forums.nyyfans.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif--><!-- XXXYYYZZZ --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Points well taken. I don't think our complete collapse is I-Rod's fault, but at the time the trade was made I felt Cashman had "upset the apple cart" and the statistics you provided back that up. The fact remains that the whole team, save perhaps Moose and Abreu, have contributed to this debacle of a season. I-Rod's 13 bad games don't account for the 50 other bad losses.

Sixty one
08-21-08, 08:48 PM
I wonder what team will pick up Pudge next year?

jimmykey2
08-21-08, 09:02 PM
Another Pudge start, another beat down. He really is a bad luck charm.

No offense, but that's stupid. Was the first game of the series a beatdown?

(forgive me if you were kidding)

Mark19
08-21-08, 09:04 PM
No offense, but that's stupid. Was the first game of the series a beatdown?

(forgive me if you were kidding)

well, it is a beat-down is more abstract sense
as in, it felt like I was beat down in the nuts in the 9th inning of that game

jimmykey2
08-21-08, 09:04 PM
well, it is a beat-down is more abstract sense
as in, it felt like I was beat down in the nuts in the 9th inning of that game

In that case, I agree with you 175%.

ArodEra
08-21-08, 09:31 PM
You forgot Hurricane Katrina (it's retroactive).

Ya see, jimmykey, yanksphan line was funny. This is just overkill.

ArodEra
08-21-08, 09:34 PM
<table class="tborder" id="post5398425" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt1" id="td_post_5398425" colspan="2">But hey, who am I to complain when his sample size only consists of 13 games, 35 AB's , 2/5 of the staff doesn't want to pitch to him and one of our biggest strengths before the trade, our bullpen, hasn't been the same since. We've only lost 4 1/2 games on the Sox and 7 on the Rays since the trade and it's only August 21, so we'll be alright.
<!-- / message --><!-- Sig Was Here --></td></tr><tr><td class="alt2"><!--http://forums.nyyfans.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif--><!-- XXXYYYZZZ --></td></tr></tbody></table>Points well taken. I don't think our complete collapse is I-Rod's fault, but at the time the trade was made I felt Cashman had "upset the apple cart" and the statistics you provided back that up. The fact remains that the whole team, save perhaps Moose and Abreu, have contributed to this debacle of a season. I-Rod's 13 bad games don't account for the 50 other bad losses.

I agree Q. Pudge is a small part of it, though I still think this trade can be categorized as one that turned out to be a bad one and disruptive to the bullpen. Injuries are another part of it, but let's face it, Tampa and Boston have had their share as well.

This team just stinks and is uninspired. I can't wait for the players to come off the books after this season.

Godzilllllla
08-22-08, 04:02 AM
nevermind

ajra21
08-22-08, 05:55 AM
the farnsworth deal for pudge was one we had to do. we needed catching and we got a decent one for an unreliable setup guy, who most would expect to have a mini collapse sometime in this season.

said it before: don't confuse the outcome with the decision.

ArodEra
08-22-08, 09:41 AM
the farnsworth deal for pudge was one we had to do. we needed catching and we got a decent one for an unreliable setup guy, who most would expect to have a mini collapse sometime in this season.

said it before: don't confuse the outcome with the decision.

A mini-collapse? Based on what? His past seasons where he had a different pitching coach, different approach, different manager (according to Farns this made a difference, at least mentally), different mindset and seemed uncomfortable here? This year he admittedly settled in and gained confidence.

Look, I wasn't a huge Farns fan because of past seasons, but there is no way anyone could predict his melting down in pinstripes based on the large sample size this year. He was somebody we can rely on in the 8th for the most part and our pen was stable and a strength of the team. Since the trade, the pen has slipped considerably; the trade an obvious disruption. This isn't a coincidence, as obviously other pitchers aren't prepared (pressure?) or are incapable of being "the man" in the 8th on a regular basis.

And as I said before, you have to consider the outcome and result of any trade to determine if it was a good trade or not. Otherwise, every trade, by every GM would be a good one, for most if not all are based on a team's needs and "looked good at the time" unless it's an obvious salary dump.

THEBOSS84
08-22-08, 10:05 AM
the farnsworth deal for pudge was one we had to do. we needed catching and we got a decent one for an unreliable setup guy, who most would expect to have a mini collapse sometime in this season.

said it before: don't confuse the outcome with the decision.

Precisely

False1
08-22-08, 11:17 AM
Just a little fun fact. This year, in 337 AB's, Pudge has worked the count to 3-1 two times, and 3-0 zero times.A lot of 3-0 and 3-1 counts result in walks, which do not count as AB's. You should use PA's for this. He has 20 BB's this year and a .332 OBP, which in this day and age is pretty good for a catcher. He's basically an league average offensive player at a position where there aren't many of those.

He hasn't been good since coming over, but SSS. I'm more concerned around whether or not he can win over this pitching staff.

False1
08-22-08, 11:20 AM
I agree Q. Pudge is a small part of it, though I still think this trade can be categorized as one that turned out to be a bad one and disruptive to the bullpen. Injuries are another part of it, but let's face it, Tampa and Boston have had their share as well.

This team just stinks and is uninspired. I can't wait for the players to come off the books after this season.It's hard to judge this trade after 13 games or so. Farns has stunk up the joint in Detroit. Also, it's no lock that if Molina caught the games Pudge did that the pitchers would have executed better. And Moeller would have caught some of those games too.

Also, don't underestimate this... Without this trade if Molina broke down Girardi would be penciling in Moeller as his every day catcher. Pudge for Farns? Yes please.

ArodEra
08-22-08, 03:33 PM
A lot of 3-0 and 3-1 counts result in walks, which do not count as AB's. You should use PA's for this. He has 20 BB's this year and a .332 OBP, which in this day and age is pretty good for a catcher. He's basically an league average offensive player at a position where there aren't many of those.

He hasn't been good since coming over, but SSS. I'm more concerned around whether or not he can win over this pitching staff.

You make some good, fair points here. It would be nice if he were more selective at the plate than he's been in his short stint here.

ArodEra
08-22-08, 03:39 PM
It's hard to judge this trade after 13 games or so. Farns has stunk up the joint in Detroit. Also, it's no lock that if Molina caught the games Pudge did that the pitchers would have executed better. And Moeller would have caught some of those games too.

Also, don't underestimate this... Without this trade if Molina broke down Girardi would be penciling in Moeller as his every day catcher. Pudge for Farns? Yes please.

Understood, but to be fair, we don't know how each player would have fared with their respective teams if we hadn't made the trade. There is no way of knowing if Farns would have meltdown here as he's done in Detroit. As I've said in this thread, there may be contributing factors to his slide - a different environment, his well being after the trade, different pitching coach, situations, etc.

As for Moeller or Molina equalling what Pudge has done in pinstripes (an admittedly small sample size), well, that wouldn't be too difficult. That's not to say that either are better than Pudge, just that he hasn't made any impact in these crucial games.

We also can't discount the effect that the trade might have had on the bullpen, who had pitched extremely well till that point.

A lot of ifs. Who knows? I do know that we're playing poorly because of a number of factors, including Pudge.

sabermet prospectus
08-22-08, 05:48 PM
Judging farns is irrelevant. Farsnworth couldve got hurt boarding the plane to detroit and its still a bad trade. Getting rid of pudge was addition by subtraction for the tigers. Thats twice now that theyve fleeced cashman in a trade.

Besides I also dont think farsowrth wouldve completly stunk like he has with the tigers had he stayed there. I dont think he wants to be here. You saw how he cried when he was traded. I know he didnt like torre but he was good friends with girardi and girardi was the first guy with the yankees to give him a fair shot (torre never did) and it worked and farns was pitcing the best baseball of his career.

yanksphan
08-22-08, 06:06 PM
Judging farns is irrelevant. Farsnworth couldve got hurt boarding the plane to detroit and its still a bad trade. Getting rid of pudge was addition by subtraction for the tigers. Thats twice now that theyve fleeced cashman in a trade.

Besides I also dont think farsowrth wouldve completly stunk like he has with the tigers had he stayed there. I dont think he wants to be here. You saw how he cried when he was traded. I know he didnt like torre but he was good friends with girardi and girardi was the first guy with the yankees to give him a fair shot (torre never did) and it worked and farns was pitcing the best baseball of his career.

You've convinced me.

We need more crybabies on this team.

ArodEra
08-22-08, 06:16 PM
You've convinced me.

We need more crybabies on this team.

And kissers. Criers and kissers. That's what we need. :cheer:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/fafafooey69/pudgeoogie_2.jpg

False1
08-22-08, 06:52 PM
Judging farns is irrelevant. Farsnworth couldve got hurt boarding the plane to detroit and its still a bad trade. Getting rid of pudge was addition by subtraction for the tigers. Thats twice now that theyve fleeced cashman in a trade.

Besides I also dont think farsowrth wouldve completly stunk like he has with the tigers had he stayed there. I dont think he wants to be here. You saw how he cried when he was traded. I know he didnt like torre but he was good friends with girardi and girardi was the first guy with the yankees to give him a fair shot (torre never did) and it worked and farns was pitcing the best baseball of his career.Huh? I know you like bemoaning everything Cashman does and like being contrarian, but that's just plain dumb. It's a trade. You judge what you give and what you receive.

Here's a great example:

June 27, 2002: Montreal Expos trade Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips and Lee Stevens to the Cleveland Indians for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew.
Colon wasn’t bad for the Expos; in fact, he finished with an overall record of 20-8 with a 2.93 ERA in 2002. But it was essentially all for naught as the Expos failed to make the playoffs and Colon bolted via free agency for the White Sox the following year. Oh yeah, they also gave up a five-tool stud in Sizemore and a pitcher in Lee who just started for the AL in the 2008 All-Star Game. Had the Tribe not given up on Phillips so soon, this trade might have looked even worse.

So in your world, judging Sizemore, Lee, Phillips and Stevens would be irrelevant to the evaluation of that trade? Hogwash. It's absolutely relevant.

And this other time Cash got fleeced by the Tigers...? PLEASE tell me you're not talking about the Sheffield deal.

BeantownYankee
08-22-08, 07:34 PM
You've convinced me.

We need more crybabies on this team.

ummmm there's no crying in baseball

Pancake
08-27-08, 04:42 PM
ummmm there's no crying in baseball

Not to be argumentative, but there's no kissing in baseball either. Unless it's from Morganna (dating myself).

YASS
08-27-08, 05:29 PM
Has anyone noticed that I-Rod's face is shaped exactly like home plate?

Godzilllllla
08-27-08, 09:42 PM
why did the "breaking news Pudge gets traded" thread or whatever it was called get deleted? i wanted to quote my post from there the day after the trade was made, cuz i couldn't have turned out to be more right about this piece of garbage trade. don't bother quoting my post and arguing with me cuz i won't respond, it was a unnecessary and STUPID trade at the time and it still is. unbelievably i actually gave Pudge WAY too much credit, i said he would hit .250 and got blasted by some people, well it turns out he can't even hit over .200, has 1 RBI and is basically a double play machine. a great addition to an already pathetic lineup, he fits in great with the 2008 version of the Yankees. we basically gave away Farnsworth and Pudge has been SO utterly worthless he has even now fallen into type B free agent. this guy is playing is way into an early retirement. he's downright awful

peeps4iife
08-27-08, 09:44 PM
pudge has played himself into retirement...

False1
08-27-08, 10:19 PM
why did the "breaking news Pudge gets traded" thread or whatever it was called get deleted? i wanted to quote my post from there the day after the trade was made, cuz i couldn't have turned out to be more right about this piece of garbage trade. don't bother quoting my post and arguing with me cuz i won't respond, it was a unnecessary and STUPID trade at the time and it still is. unbelievably i actually gave Pudge WAY too much credit, i said he would hit .250 and got blasted by some people, well it turns out he can't even hit over .200, has 1 RBI and is basically a double play machine. a great addition to an already pathetic lineup, he fits in great with the 2008 version of the Yankees. we basically gave away Farnsworth and Pudge has been SO utterly worthless he has even now fallen into type B free agent. this guy is playing is way into an early retirement. he's downright awfulThere are plenty of posters on this board that came on this year simply predicting gloom and doom about everything. This year, they've been more right than not. Congratulations. Good times.

Damon(MVP)
08-27-08, 10:27 PM
why did the "breaking news Pudge gets traded" thread or whatever it was called get deleted? i wanted to quote my post from there the day after the trade was made, cuz i couldn't have turned out to be more right about this piece of garbage trade. don't bother quoting my post and arguing with me cuz i won't respond, it was a unnecessary and STUPID trade at the time and it still is. unbelievably i actually gave Pudge WAY too much credit, i said he would hit .250 and got blasted by some people, well it turns out he can't even hit over .200, has 1 RBI and is basically a double play machine. a great addition to an already pathetic lineup, he fits in great with the 2008 version of the Yankees. we basically gave away Farnsworth and Pudge has been SO utterly worthless he has even now fallen into type B free agent. this guy is playing is way into an early retirement. he's downright awful

I totally agree, this guy has been totally worthless, at least Farnsworth was good with us, something is definitely wrong with his swing, I'm suspecting that he was damaged goods when we got him.

Godzilllllla
08-28-08, 01:25 AM
There are plenty of posters on this board that came on this year simply predicting gloom and doom about everything. This year, they've been more right than not. Congratulations. Good times.

False1, i'm not really sure what your problem is, but if you could go ahead and never quote one of my posts again that'd be great. i'm not going to reply anymore to your crap after this. the gloom and doom talk is a bunch of BS. Brian Cashman made a trade and i didn't agree with it. i had my logic and if you had read my post about it you would have seen that my logic was pretty much dead on to what has transpired so far. i haven't come on this board predicting doom and gloom everywhere, that's just baseless. "congratulations" on being something that i can't say on this board- take your pick

caniac23
08-28-08, 05:41 AM
So we let Irod walk, is he Type A or Type B?

yanksphan
08-28-08, 06:09 AM
why did the "breaking news Pudge gets traded" thread or whatever it was called get deleted? i wanted to quote my post from there the day after the trade was made, cuz i couldn't have turned out to be more right about this piece of garbage trade. don't bother quoting my post and arguing with me cuz i won't respond, it was a unnecessary and STUPID trade at the time and it still is. unbelievably i actually gave Pudge WAY too much credit, i said he would hit .250 and got blasted by some people, well it turns out he can't even hit over .200, has 1 RBI and is basically a double play machine. a great addition to an already pathetic lineup, he fits in great with the 2008 version of the Yankees. we basically gave away Farnsworth and Pudge has been SO utterly worthless he has even now fallen into type B free agent. this guy is playing is way into an early retirement. he's downright awful

Farnsworth has a 5.79ERA and a 1.71WHIP with Detroit.

Man, we gave that away? Shucks.

yanksphan
08-28-08, 04:01 PM
Huge walk by Pudge today in the 9th.

Nice job.

-tz
08-28-08, 04:33 PM
Huge walk by Pudge today in the 9th.

Nice job.And Giambi gave him credit for it on Suzyn's postgame interview ... later, reporting from the clubhouse she reported on how hard he was concentrating on the mantra "Don't swing unless you get a pitch to hit," while admitting that was hard for him, as patience at the plate is not his forte.

I really give him credit for helping to pull this one off.

Godzilllllla
08-28-08, 06:17 PM
Farnsworth has a 5.79ERA and a 1.71WHIP with Detroit.

Man, we gave that away? Shucks.

i couldn't care less what the guy is doing in Detroit. it's irrelevant. he's in a different uniform in a different city facing different teams. in no way do his struggles with Detroit have any bearing on what he would have done with the Yankees. he was performing tremendously when we traded him and it was a lame move that netted us nothing.


Huge walk by Pudge today in the 9th.

Nice job.

yeah, his 3rd walk in over 50 ABs, let's just give him a ****ing parade. this guy is hitting under .200 with 1 RBI with the Yankees. he shouldn't get a single word of praise as far as i'm concerned.

bmxstreetrider86
08-28-08, 06:23 PM
So we let Irod walk, is he Type A or Type B?


someone who claims to have broke the code said he had recently dropped to a type B




its both good and bad. it makes it more likely that a team signs him, but we only get a supplemental pick

ThePinStripes
08-28-08, 06:47 PM
He has 54 ABs as a yankee, an unusually high number of them against top notch pitchers. Don't get carried away.

yanksphan
08-28-08, 06:55 PM
i couldn't care less what the guy is doing in Detroit. it's irrelevant. he's in a different uniform in a different city facing different teams. in no way do his struggles with Detroit have any bearing on what he would have done with the Yankees. he was performing tremendously when we traded him and it was a lame move that netted us nothing.

Ah, so Farnsworth is only relevant in the discussion when you complain that we gave him up? Gotcha.



yeah, his 3rd walk in over 50 ABs, let's just give him a ****ing parade. this guy is hitting under .200 with 1 RBI with the Yankees. he shouldn't get a single word of praise as far as i'm concerned.

You sure are concerned about a player you clearly don't like - and as much as you hate it, he played a big part in the Yankees winning today.

Godzilllllla
08-28-08, 07:11 PM
Ah, so Farnsworth is only relevant in the discussion when you complain that we gave him up? Gotcha.




You sure are concerned about a player you clearly don't like - and as much as you hate it, he played a big part in the Yankees winning today.

wow, obviously you did not understand some of my comments. i meant Kyle's performance in Detroit so far is irrelevant to what he would have done HAD he stayed with the Yankees. it doesn't matter. you can't just say, oh he's been terrible in Detroit he would have had those same struggles with the Yankees down the stretch. well you can say it but it would be baseless. you can't assume it.

as for your Pudge comments, i was disgusted with the trade because i knew he wouldn't bring enough offense to compensate for the loss of Kyle and the loss of Molina getting to work with the pitching staff more. i was right. the only thing i "don't like" about Pudge is how much he has hurt the Yankees team since he's gotten here. he initiated the trade himself basically, although Cashman had to accept it as well. sure he might not be a HUGE reason for the Yankees struggles but he's only made things worse. and when you say he played a "big part" in today's win, are you saying it because he didn't ground into a double play to end the game like he would normally do? well, i don't care what your answer is actually.

yanksphan
08-28-08, 07:24 PM
wow, obviously you did not understand some of my comments. i meant Kyle's performance in Detroit so far is irrelevant to what he would have done HAD he stayed with the Yankees. it doesn't matter. you can't just say, oh he's been terrible in Detroit he would have had those same struggles with the Yankees down the stretch. well you can say it but it would be baseless. you can't assume it.

I'm just saying, if you're going to continue harping on "what we gave up" - then people are going to continue to point out exactly what we gave up. I'm not the first to mention it in this thread, and you continue to come back with this lame response. It's not baseless at all. Farnsworth is a streaky pitcher - we all saw it for 2.5 years.

It amazes me how when we see how GOOD Farnsworth can be, a certain crowd of fans forget how BAD he can be as well. This latest rough patch in Detroit is no different than what he did in pinstripes time and time again. So no, it's not baseless - it's repetitive history, and you turning a blind eye towards that doesn't make it not true.


as for your Pudge comments, i was disgusted with the trade because i knew he wouldn't bring enough offense to compensate for the loss of Kyle and the loss of Molina getting to work with the pitching staff more. i was right. the only thing i "don't like" about Pudge is how much he has hurt the Yankees team since he's gotten here. he initiated the trade himself basically, although Cashman had to accept it as well. sure he might not be a HUGE reason for the Yankees struggles but he's only made things worse. and when you say he played a "big part" in today's win, are you saying it because he didn't ground into a double play to end the game like he would normally do? well, i don't care what your answer is actually.

At the time of the trade, Pudge had an OPS+ of 100. His triple slash numbers were almost identical to Jeter's.

But you somehow knew he'd tank based on that half season of data?

Weren't you just saying something about baseless predictions?

Giambi DID play a big part today, there's no denying that.

But that doesn't take anything away from Pudge's role in the win today either.

ajra21
08-29-08, 06:49 AM
i think the trade for pudge was the right move. I thought so then and still do now. no one could have guessed that he’d hit .200 as a yankee, nor that kyle would be terrible for the tigers after both were good for their former clubs this year. i don’t think kyle’s trade caused the yankees bullpen problems. i’ve referred to it as a pox-on-both-houses trade, unfortunately so for the yankees–bad results. i'd make that trade again today.

R.V.47
08-29-08, 07:56 AM
Pudge has been an absolute disaster but Farnsworth hasnt really done great in Detroit either.

JavyVazquezIsSick
08-29-08, 07:57 AM
This move was great on paper. Pudge just hasn't hit.

yanksphan
08-29-08, 09:02 AM
This move was great on paper. Pudge just hasn't hit.

That's the best summary of this trade I've read. 100% agree.

ajra21
08-29-08, 04:22 PM
This move was great on paper. Pudge just hasn't hit.

spot on javy.

don't confuse the outcome with the decision.

Messerwhitescooter
08-29-08, 07:00 PM
This move was great on paper. Pudge just hasn't hit.
WhY? that's what I want to know. Girardi?

yanksphan
08-31-08, 06:40 AM
Good to see Pudge with the HR yesterday. Hopefully he can build off it.

ajra21
08-31-08, 09:59 AM
WhY? that's what I want to know. Girardi?

are you actually pointing the finger at girardi for why pudge hasn't hit?

presume you're being sarcastic.

:wtf:

Godzilllllla
08-31-08, 02:35 PM
This move was great on paper. Pudge just hasn't hit.

that's your opinion, personally i think the move was awful at the time and obviously i still do. Pudge was never going to provide ENOUGH of an offensive upgrade to make it worth getting rid of Farnsworth. and obviously IRod has been even worse than I expected. combine that with our recent bullpen struggles (overuse plays a big role in this), and anyone can rattle off Kyle's terrible stats with Detroit but i won't care. lately we have sorely missed this guy in our bullpen. he had turned a corner with Girardi has manager, yet we wave bye bye for an over the hill catcher. the move was not "great" on paper, if anything it was marginal. it has backfired exactly the way i suspected.

yanksphan
08-31-08, 05:50 PM
that's your opinion, personally i think the move was awful at the time and obviously i still do. Pudge was never going to provide ENOUGH of an offensive upgrade to make it worth getting rid of Farnsworth. and obviously IRod has been even worse than I expected. combine that with our recent bullpen struggles (overuse plays a big role in this), and anyone can rattle off Kyle's terrible stats with Detroit but i won't care. lately we have sorely missed this guy in our bullpen. he had turned a corner with Girardi has manager, yet we wave bye bye for an over the hill catcher. the move was not "great" on paper, if anything it was marginal. it has backfired exactly the way i suspected.

Oh, so now Kyle turned the corner?

Please. He's doing exactly what he's done for the past 2.5 seasons in pinstripes - good stretch, crappy stretch, good stretch, crappy stretch...etc etc - we all saw it for over 2 seasons and begged for his dismissal.

His latest stint in DET is just another chapter in his inconsistencies. He'll probably finish the season 2-0, 11Ks, 1.54ERA or something.

Based on Pudge's career and his numbers through the season up to the time of the trade, NOBODY could have predicted such a swoon. If you'd like to share your methodology for predicting it, I'm all ears....

False1
08-31-08, 06:04 PM
This trade was one of those where it was a good trade for both teams, but both teams have gotten poor production from the players they received.

Gzillllla- Bill James has a statistic called "Runs Created". Here is the comparison RC/G as of the time of the trade:

Molina - 2.8
Moeller - 3.6
Pudge - 4.9

That's a pretty significant offensive upgrade at the time of the trade. Also, I beleive that Pudge was a borderline Type A FA, whereas Farns was a lock for a Type B, so the thought was we'd get an incremental 1st round draft pick if Pudge walked to boot. Lastly, the thing no one seems to remember is that if this trade hadn't been made and Molina broke down, we'd have Moeller as our starting C. I don't even want to think about who the backup C would be.

Unfortunately, Pudge's RC/G since the trade has been 2.1. He's actually done worse offensively than what Molina had been doing and, although I think Pudge's defense is solid and he gets a bad rap there, certainly Molina is the superior defender. So the trade hasn't worked out. That sucks. But I think your proclamations of this being a horrible trade, your discounting of Farns' performance since the trade and your general vitriol relative to Cashman are way over the top.

Godzilllllla
08-31-08, 07:22 PM
Oh, so now Kyle turned the corner?

Please. He's doing exactly what he's done for the past 2.5 seasons in pinstripes - good stretch, crappy stretch, good stretch, crappy stretch...etc etc - we all saw it for over 2 seasons and begged for his dismissal.

His latest stint in DET is just another chapter in his inconsistencies. He'll probably finish the season 2-0, 11Ks, 1.54ERA or something.

Based on Pudge's career and his numbers through the season up to the time of the trade, NOBODY could have predicted such a swoon. If you'd like to share your methodology for predicting it, I'm all ears....

i watch a lot of baseball. probably too much. anyone that watched Pudge this season and recently knows he's not even close to the same player he used to be. Detroit was fine platooning him and did not have a second thought getting rid of him. like i've said, even i didn't predict he would be THIS bad. hell i gave him credit for .250. but they had to know coming in his power is ALL but gone. he has a terrible hitters eye and always has, the problem is he doesn't have the bat speed to make up for it anymore. that's why his strikeouts are way up. he was not going to be enough of an upgrade to even bother with a trade. the team was doing fine at the time and all they needed was to upgrade Moeller, not try to go get an over the hill "starter", who isn't even a starter anymore.

as for Farnsworth, i couldn't stand the guy just as much as most people here before this season. any other time besides this year i would have been thrilled to get rid of him and get anything decent in return. but the guy was pitching better than i'd ever seen him with the Yankees. if you want to file it under "good and bad stretches", go ahead. so many people gave up on this guy that in a million years they wouldn't admit if he had turned the corner with our team. to me he was pitching with a confidence i hadn't seen from him and combined with our VERY INEXPERIENCED bullpen i would have kept him. to me the trade was just not necessary and to me, it didn't have a chance to improve our team nearly as much as some people think.

False1
08-31-08, 08:17 PM
i watch a lot of baseball. probably too much. anyone that watched Pudge this season and recently knows he's not even close to the same player he used to be. Detroit was fine platooning him and did not have a second thought getting rid of him. like i've said, even i didn't predict he would be THIS bad. hell i gave him credit for .250. but they had to know coming in his power is ALL but gone. he has a terrible hitters eye and always has, the problem is he doesn't have the bat speed to make up for it anymore. that's why his strikeouts are way up. he was not going to be enough of an upgrade to even bother with a trade. the team was doing fine at the time and all they needed was to upgrade Moeller, not try to go get an over the hill "starter", who isn't even a starter anymore.

as for Farnsworth, i couldn't stand the guy just as much as most people here before this season. any other time besides this year i would have been thrilled to get rid of him and get anything decent in return. but the guy was pitching better than i'd ever seen him with the Yankees. if you want to file it under "good and bad stretches", go ahead. so many people gave up on this guy that in a million years they wouldn't admit if he had turned the corner with our team. to me he was pitching with a confidence i hadn't seen from him and combined with our VERY INEXPERIENCED bullpen i would have kept him. to me the trade was just not necessary and to me, it didn't have a chance to improve our team nearly as much as some people think.I guess you missed my post above showing the material difference this year in offensive output. No one's saying he was going to be "the player he used to be." That player would have taken a heck of a lot more than Farnsworth to acquire. At the time of the trade he was having a fine offensive season for a catcher and he's still a reliable receiver. Molina is a superior receiver but a blackhole in the lineup. The trade just didn't work out.

So... to upgrade Moeller as you suggest they needed to do above... what catchers are available for one Farnsworth? Or what trades do you think would have been reasonable?

ArodEra
08-31-08, 08:33 PM
Ca$hmoney!

Edit: Whoops, I was daydreaming and thought it was 1999.

False1
08-31-08, 09:07 PM
Ca$hmoney!

Edit: Whoops, I was daydreaming and thought it was 1999.Thanks for always adding value with your posts. Seriously, if you are a troll would you just out yourself already?

conkermaniac
08-31-08, 09:59 PM
i watch a lot of baseball. probably too much. anyone that watched Pudge this season and recently knows he's not even close to the same player he used to be. Detroit was fine platooning him and did not have a second thought getting rid of him. like i've said, even i didn't predict he would be THIS bad. hell i gave him credit for .250. but they had to know coming in his power is ALL but gone. he has a terrible hitters eye and always has, the problem is he doesn't have the bat speed to make up for it anymore. that's why his strikeouts are way up. he was not going to be enough of an upgrade to even bother with a trade. the team was doing fine at the time and all they needed was to upgrade Moeller, not try to go get an over the hill "starter", who isn't even a starter anymore.

We may have been able to replace Moeller as backup, but I can't imagine the price for any catcher being much less than an inconsistent, overpaid reliever. That's ignoring the fact that we absolutely needed a starter because Molina was about to break down. You are probably right that Detroit didn't think much of Pudge and was happy to be rid of him. But you can bet that they also knew that Farnsworth wasn't any great shakes either. Detroit may have been able to fill a need (relief pitching) for nothing, but we also managed to fill one of our needs (starting catching) for nothing as well.



as for Farnsworth, i couldn't stand the guy just as much as most people here before this season. any other time besides this year i would have been thrilled to get rid of him and get anything decent in return. but the guy was pitching better than i'd ever seen him with the Yankees. if you want to file it under "good and bad stretches", go ahead. so many people gave up on this guy that in a million years they wouldn't admit if he had turned the corner with our team. to me he was pitching with a confidence i hadn't seen from him and combined with our VERY INEXPERIENCED bullpen i would have kept him. to me the trade was just not necessary and to me, it didn't have a chance to improve our team nearly as much as some people think.
Our bullpen may be inexperienced, but at the time of the trade, everyone was raving about how good our bullpen was and how it was only going to get better when Bruney came back. We had plenty of excellent relievers, and when you can sacrifice a little bit of a strength to fill a pressing need, you do it. No one could have predicted that Veras and Ramirez would fall off like they have, and Farnsworth seemed expendable with the imminent return of Bruney (who HAS been better than Farnsworth since his return) and the acquisition of Marte (who was supposed to provide experience).

It isn't Pudge's fault that our entire bullpen, including Mo, has underperformed since the trade, making Farnsworth seem more important in many people's eyes than he really was, but if he were producing anything close to what he was doing in Detroit, I bet we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

ajra21
09-01-08, 06:04 AM
We may have been able to replace Moeller as backup, but I can't imagine the price for any catcher being much less than an inconsistent, overpaid reliever. That's ignoring the fact that we absolutely needed a starter because Molina was about to break down. You are probably right that Detroit didn't think much of Pudge and was happy to be rid of him. But you can bet that they also knew that Farnsworth wasn't any great shakes either. Detroit may have been able to fill a need (relief pitching) for nothing, but we also managed to fill one of our needs (starting catching) for nothing as well.

Our bullpen may be inexperienced, but at the time of the trade, everyone was raving about how good our bullpen was and how it was only going to get better when Bruney came back. We had plenty of excellent relievers, and when you can sacrifice a little bit of a strength to fill a pressing need, you do it. No one could have predicted that Veras and Ramirez would fall off like they have, and Farnsworth seemed expendable with the imminent return of Bruney (who HAS been better than Farnsworth since his return) and the acquisition of Marte (who was supposed to provide experience).

It isn't Pudge's fault that our entire bullpen, including Mo, has underperformed since the trade, making Farnsworth seem more important in many people's eyes than he really was, but if he were producing anything close to what he was doing in Detroit, I bet we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

veryy good post.

ArodEra
09-01-08, 09:08 AM
Thanks for always adding value with your posts. Seriously, if you are a troll would you just out yourself already?

Just a tad oversensitive and humorless today, chief?

If you're suggesting that I'm a troll, flamer, or whatever terminology is used for someone on the internet just looking to provoke, you are dead wrong. I have respect for this forum and think that it is the best Yankee site on the internet, bar none.

Perhaps you should look closer and comment on the few members who have unconditional, often eerie love for Cashman; those who gang up on others who have the misfortune of having differing opinions and in the process are unnecessarily rude, provoking and unwelcoming.

If I trouble you so much, or my posts don't meet your standards, it might be best to ignore my posts rather than trying to stir the pot. You'll do both me and yourself a favor. I've treated your opinions and have responsed to you with respect, no matter how many times you've seemingly goaded me, and I would hope that you or anyone would do likewise in return. It's called common decency. Hey, we aren't talking about world poverty here, so try to lighten up a bit.

ajra21
09-01-08, 11:14 AM
Just a tad oversensitive and humorless today, chief?

If you're suggesting that I'm a troll, flamer, or whatever terminology is used for someone on the internet just looking to provoke, you are dead wrong. I have respect for this forum and think that it is the best Yankee site on the internet, bar none.

Perhaps you should look closer and comment on the few members who have unconditional, often eerie love for Cashman; those who gang up on others who have the misfortune of having differing opinions and in the process are unnecessarily rude, provoking and unwelcoming.

If I trouble you so much, or my posts don't meet your standards, it might be best to ignore my posts rather than trying to stir the pot. You'll do both me and yourself a favor. I've treated your opinions and have responsed to you with respect, no matter how many times you've seemingly goaded me, and I would hope that you or anyone would do likewise in return. It's called common decency. Hey, we aren't talking about world poverty here, so try to lighten up a bit.

yeah ... i love cash, have a go at me!

ArodEra
09-01-08, 11:41 AM
yeah ... i love cash, have a go at me!

Nah. :lol: You're entitled to your opinion as I am. Plus, my impression of you when I first joined was wrong. I apologize. You seem like a decent nice guy who knows his baseball. Somehow (hopefully), I think that you've learned that I'm neither a Sox fan (the highest insult!) or Sox troll.

I enjoy your respectful posts, even though we differ in many areas. You'd be surprised that in many areas we are indeed in agreement and also, some of your responses (as well as others), makes me think harder at some of my stances. Not to say I'm going to do a 180, but some truth lies in most of our opinions.

False1
09-01-08, 01:48 PM
Just a tad oversensitive and humorless today, chief?

If you're suggesting that I'm a troll, flamer, or whatever terminology is used for someone on the internet just looking to provoke, you are dead wrong. I have respect for this forum and think that it is the best Yankee site on the internet, bar none.

Perhaps you should look closer and comment on the few members who have unconditional, often eerie love for Cashman; those who gang up on others who have the misfortune of having differing opinions and in the process are unnecessarily rude, provoking and unwelcoming.

If I trouble you so much, or my posts don't meet your standards, it might be best to ignore my posts rather than trying to stir the pot. You'll do both me and yourself a favor. I've treated your opinions and have responsed to you with respect, no matter how many times you've seemingly goaded me, and I would hope that you or anyone would do likewise in return. It's called common decency. Hey, we aren't talking about world poverty here, so try to lighten up a bit.A little self-deprication can be good for a laugh. The incessant, cross-thread posting of your Cash-hate gets old.

Ca$hmoney!

Edit: Whoops, I was daydreaming and thought it was 1999.That's supposed to draw some chuckles?

Earlier in the Cashman thread someone jumped all over you, another poster came to your defense about your "opinion" and it seems like ever since you've been on some personal crusade to show that your opinion is righteous and needs to be heard over and over and over, here, there and everywhere. Re-read your pompous comments in the third paragraph here. There's nothing "eerie" about disagreeing with you.

Ok - so a guy who joined in 6/08 with a handle name of "ArodEra" resents the GM who acquired A-Rod? Makes negative posts in the Cashman thread, Pudge thread, Pettitte thread, the Cano thread, etc? Maybe it's you that needs to ligthen up?

Young Steinbrenner
09-01-08, 04:58 PM
I liked the trade when we made it....

He hasn't hit much, and the pitchers aren't used to him yet. But Pudge can still play. I dont think he's washed up by any means.

ThePinStripes
09-01-08, 05:05 PM
We may have been able to replace Moeller as backup, but I can't imagine the price for any catcher being much less than an inconsistent, overpaid reliever. That's ignoring the fact that we absolutely needed a starter because Molina was about to break down. You are probably right that Detroit didn't think much of Pudge and was happy to be rid of him. But you can bet that they also knew that Farnsworth wasn't any great shakes either. Detroit may have been able to fill a need (relief pitching) for nothing, but we also managed to fill one of our needs (starting catching) for nothing as well.


Our bullpen may be inexperienced, but at the time of the trade, everyone was raving about how good our bullpen was and how it was only going to get better when Bruney came back. We had plenty of excellent relievers, and when you can sacrifice a little bit of a strength to fill a pressing need, you do it. No one could have predicted that Veras and Ramirez would fall off like they have, and Farnsworth seemed expendable with the imminent return of Bruney (who HAS been better than Farnsworth since his return) and the acquisition of Marte (who was supposed to provide experience).

It isn't Pudge's fault that our entire bullpen, including Mo, has underperformed since the trade, making Farnsworth seem more important in many people's eyes than he really was, but if he were producing anything close to what he was doing in Detroit, I bet we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

Exactly. The fact of the matter was that Farnsworth wasn't going to keep that kind of performance, we didn't need him in the pen now or in the future (we had Giese, Robertson, Marte, etc as new additions) and we simply NEEDED another catcher. It was a GREAT move. Low price, low risk, high reward. You can't harp on someone for rolling the dice when the odds are stacked high in his favor.

If I came up to you and offered you 10:1 payout on a coin toss, you'd be a damn idiot not to take it. If you lost, anyone who criticized you for taking the bet would be an idiot.

ajra21
09-02-08, 07:50 AM
Nah. :lol: You're entitled to your opinion as I am. Plus, my impression of you when I first joined was wrong. I apologize. You seem like a decent nice guy who knows his baseball. Somehow (hopefully), I think that you've learned that I'm neither a Sox fan (the highest insult!) or Sox troll.

I enjoy your respectful posts, even though we differ in many areas. You'd be surprised that in many areas we are indeed in agreement and also, some of your responses (as well as others), makes me think harder at some of my stances. Not to say I'm going to do a 180, but some truth lies in most of our opinions.

i know ... i rock!

:rockin:

False1
09-02-08, 11:14 AM
Exactly. The fact of the matter was that Farnsworth wasn't going to keep that kind of performance, we didn't need him in the pen now or in the future (we had Giese, Robertson, Marte, etc as new additions) and we simply NEEDED another catcher. It was a GREAT move. Low price, low risk, high reward. You can't harp on someone for rolling the dice when the odds are stacked high in his favor.Not to mention all the young arms in MiLB that would be getting a look in September or could be called up to fill a need.

Yero
09-02-08, 11:24 AM
Kyle has always been inconsistent. Good one day, awful the next. Now I know it's not possible for pitchers to come out and pitch phenomenal every time, but as far as I'm concerned I had seen enough.

Acceptable trade. Sure, Pudge could and should be hitting better, but good trade none the less. I've always liked the guy and let's face it, hitting or not, there wasn't much to lose anyways.

Godzilllllla
09-02-08, 08:36 PM
sorry guys, it's not like i don't understand what most of your reasoning is about the Pudge trade. all anyone is doing is beating a dead horse by now. but it's hard to argue with facts. the trade has backfired, and if you guys want to chalk that up to bad luck fine, i disagreed with the decision and my reasoning for not liking the trade has pretty much happened almost to a point. i don't see it as a coincidence. think what you want, it's over with and happened, no use in talking about it any more really

themgmt
09-02-08, 08:38 PM
Farnsworth is no good. The trade didn't backfire. Couldn't be happier he's gone.

Godzilllllla
09-02-08, 08:49 PM
Farnsworth is no good. The trade didn't backfire. Couldn't be happier he's gone.

the trade didn't backfire? even if you liked the trade at the time you're ****ing clueless if you actually think it didn't backfire. Pudge was brought on board primarily, if not fully, as an OFFENSIVE UPGRADE. he was supposed to start most of the games, hit for a high average and drive in some runs. that was his job coming on board. i'm pretty sure a .222 average with a grand total of two RBIs and one double is not getting the job done. say what you want about the bullpen, the bottom line is that it's inexperienced and we were counting heavily on 2 guys that are basically rookies (veras and edwar). Robertson, another rookie, was maybe not a key part but he pitched in some semi-big situations for us this year. all i've ever been saying is that the trade just was not necessary to do. Pudge wasn't enough of an upgrade to even bother trading Farnsworth. part of the problem is some of you hate the guy so much that if we had traded him for Tony Pena Jr people would be raving.

anyhow, sure Farnsworth has sucked with Detroit but who cares? Pudge was brought on board and he's failed miserably. even if you liked the decision you are not even approaching this rationally if you think the trade hasn't backfired at least to some degree.

themgmt
09-02-08, 08:59 PM
I didn't say Pudge has been good. Farnsworth is inconsistent. He is replaceable, and has been replaced by Bruney. Pudge has replaced Moeller. No loss there even if he doesn't hit. But if Pudge does hit like he's supposed to.. it's a plus. I would agree if I thought the Yankees lost anything of value. But they didn't.

ArodEra
09-03-08, 12:15 AM
the trade didn't backfire? even if you liked the trade at the time you're ****ing clueless if you actually think it didn't backfire. Pudge was brought on board primarily, if not fully, as an OFFENSIVE UPGRADE. he was supposed to start most of the games, hit for a high average and drive in some runs. that was his job coming on board. i'm pretty sure a .222 average with a grand total of two RBIs and one double is not getting the job done. say what you want about the bullpen, the bottom line is that it's inexperienced and we were counting heavily on 2 guys that are basically rookies (veras and edwar). Robertson, another rookie, was maybe not a key part but he pitched in some semi-big situations for us this year. all i've ever been saying is that the trade just was not necessary to do. Pudge wasn't enough of an upgrade to even bother trading Farnsworth. part of the problem is some of you hate the guy so much that if we had traded him for Tony Pena Jr people would be raving.

anyhow, sure Farnsworth has sucked with Detroit but who cares? Pudge was brought on board and he's failed miserably. even if you liked the decision you are not even approaching this rationally if you think the trade hasn't backfired at least to some degree.

Couldn't agree more. Do you know what's ironic? If the Yanks were in 2nd place today with a 3 game lead in the WC race, some fans would attribute that success to this trade. But, for some reason, we can't attribute much of the team's decline to it. Is it a coincidence that the bullpen took a dive after this trade was made? That's not to say that Farns was lights out and the sole reason for the pen's success, but he did pitch well in his role and everyone else seemed to have their own role set in place. Since the trade, nobody has been able to pick up the ball and run with it with any consistency and become the bridge to Mo. To make matters worse, Marte, who Cashman thought would help fill that role, has failed.

Then to add insult to injury, Pudge hasn't been able to hit his way out of a paper bag. Pick a catcher....any catcher, and he couldn't have done much worse than Pudge has.

yanksphan
09-03-08, 05:59 AM
the trade didn't backfire? even if you liked the trade at the time you're ****ing clueless if you actually think it didn't backfire. Pudge was brought on board primarily, if not fully, as an OFFENSIVE UPGRADE.

You can keep saying this, and believing it if you want - but you're still wrong.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080730&content_id=3224994&vkey=trade2008&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb


"He's still an everyday guy and he's a significant upgrade, in all due respect, to everything we've got," Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said.

He was brought in to spell Molina. Plain and simple. Molina has never played an entire season as a starter, and at 33 years old, now is not the time to begin doing that.

ajra21
09-03-08, 06:27 AM
You can keep saying this, and believing it if you want - but you're still wrong.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080730&content_id=3224994&vkey=trade2008&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

He was brought in to spell Molina. Plain and simple. Molina has never played an entire season as a starter, and at 33 years old, now is not the time to begin doing that.

i think, had pudge kept up his hitting like he was in detroit, we might have seen slighty different playing time. that said, andy and moose want molina to catch them but still pudge is playing more.

yanksphan
10-15-08, 01:14 PM
why did the "breaking news Pudge gets traded" thread or whatever it was called get deleted? i wanted to quote my post from there the day after the trade was made, cuz i couldn't have turned out to be more right about this piece of garbage trade. don't bother quoting my post and arguing with me cuz i won't respond, it was a unnecessary and STUPID trade at the time and it still is. unbelievably i actually gave Pudge WAY too much credit, i said he would hit .250 and got blasted by some people, well it turns out he can't even hit over .200, has 1 RBI and is basically a double play machine. a great addition to an already pathetic lineup, he fits in great with the 2008 version of the Yankees. we basically gave away Farnsworth and Pudge has been SO utterly worthless he has even now fallen into type B free agent. this guy is playing is way into an early retirement. he's downright awful

So much for that...

Pudge - Type A
Farnsworth - not even a Type B

If all we get out of this trade is draft picks, it was a steal.

Casius
10-15-08, 01:40 PM
The great thing about the two trades made this year was that they weren't all-in. Ivan didn't work out the way we hoped with him with the team collapsing soon after he arrived (not his fault really, Joba got hurt and the pitching went under), but Farnsworth had nothing left to give to the Yankees. We essentially got two draft picks for nothing (assuming he declines arbitration and somebody signs him, and I think that's a fair assumption to make).

2JAY
10-15-08, 01:41 PM
The only upgrade that I saw from Irod while he was with the Yankees was the opposing teams ability to steal 2nd. For a guy who believed that he was still a strating ML catcher, Irod during his Yankee tour was anything but.