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View Full Version : Alfredo Aceves Deserves a Start



sjb23
07-23-08, 07:27 AM
Cashman should give this guy a start and see how he compares to Rasner. He really has some good numbers at three different levels this season:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Aceves%2C%20A%20%20P&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=469686

Yankees1962
07-23-08, 07:49 AM
Cashman should give this guy a start and see how he compares to Rasner. He really has some good numbers at three different levels this season:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Aceves%2C%20A%20%20P&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=469686
Maybe that's why Cashman was at the game he started last night.

TheBamTino24
07-23-08, 07:53 AM
I don't think either Rasner or Ponson deserved to be yanked. Yet.

ajra21
07-23-08, 07:54 AM
he has picthed well all season. throws around 92mph with good movement and then adds in a change with a slider or a cruve (can't remember). i feel they need to give him a shot sometime this season but i would prefer if they let him pitch another 3 or 4 times in scranton.

TEPLimey
07-23-08, 08:00 AM
Didn't Rasner and Ponson just pitch back to back decent games? Tough crowd here.

ajra21
07-23-08, 08:04 AM
Didn't Rasner and Ponson just pitch back to back decent games? Tough crowd here.

i know. i don't believe we need to trade for a guy to replace either of these but if we have someone internally who can be an improvement, then i'm all for it. aceves isn't young and has pitched the innings so he won't burn out down the stretch.

as i said above, i'd rather they gave him some more time in scranton; which in turn will give us more time with these two starters to see whether they are gonna keep it together.

aeromac76
07-23-08, 08:08 AM
Didn't Rasner and Ponson just pitch back to back decent games? Tough crowd here.
They did, but I think people are, and IMO wisely so, looking at the long term.

I am not usually a fan of ESPN but Olney said yesterday that the Yankees do not need an ace, what they really need is a RF hitting OF bat and a 3 or 4 starter so we can move Ponson or Rasner to the 5 spot and the other one can go to the pen or somewhere else..

Long term, I would feel better about having Pettitte, Joba, Moose , a quality #4 from a trade, Ponson.

Having Ranser AND Ponson start 40% of the games for the near future does scare me..

ajra21
07-23-08, 08:17 AM
They did, but I think people are, and IMO wisely so, looking at the long term.

I am not usually a fan of ESPN but Olney said yesterday that the Yankees do not need an ace, what they really need is a RF hitting OF bat and a 3 or 4 starter so we can move Ponson or Rasner to the 5 spot and the other one can go to the pen or somewhere else..

Long term, I would feel better about having Pettitte, Joba, Moose , a quality #4 from a trade, Ponson.

Having Ranser AND Ponson start 40% of the games for the near future does scare me.

maybe we do need a right field bat but what is out there that will actually help us for the long term. while rasner or ponson probably won't help us in the long term either, why would you move either to the 'pen when it's been doing so well.

Yankees1962
07-23-08, 08:21 AM
maybe we do need a right field bat but what is out there that will actually help us for the long term. while rasner or ponson probably won't help us in the long term either, why would you move either to the 'pen when it's been doing so well.
Moving Rasner to be the long man or optioning him down to SWB is the best move in my opinion that strengthens the pitching by moving Ponson down to the 5th slot in the rotation.

ajra21
07-23-08, 08:23 AM
Moving Rasner to be the long man or optioning him down to SWB is the best move in my opinion that strengthens the pitching by moving Ponson down to the 5th slot in the rotation.

maybe but i'm not convinced. i don't see a guy out there who is better than ponson or rasner. aceves might be but read what i said above about him and more time.

mbn007
07-23-08, 08:23 AM
Aceves is still building back his arm strength. He just came off the DL. He was on a 65 pitch limit last night. So I would say he is 3-4 starts away from helping up here.

Yankees1962
07-23-08, 08:25 AM
maybe but i'm not convinced. i don't see a guy out there who is better than ponson or rasner. aceves might be but read what i said above about him and more time.
Washburn is better than either of them, but I'm not going to attempt to convince you of that.

Yankees1962
07-23-08, 08:27 AM
Aceves is still building back his arm strength. He just came off the DL. He was on a 65 pitch limit last night. So I would say he is 3-4 starts away from helping up here.
I don't think that many, but probably 2 starts away from 100 pitch limit.

ajra21
07-23-08, 08:27 AM
Washburn is better than either of them, but I'm not going to attempt to convince you of that.

he has improved of late but thanks for not trying to convince me!

;)

Yankees1962
07-23-08, 08:33 AM
he has improved of late but thanks for not trying to convince me!

;)
You're welcome to your opinion, no matter how wrong it might be.:)

ajra21
07-23-08, 08:34 AM
You're welcome to your opinion, no matter how wrong it might be.:)

LOL! i'll let you have that one because the sun is shining and we're on a winning streak.

BRNXBMRS
07-23-08, 08:40 AM
Kay was talking about him yesterday. Saying that he may be the next guy to come up since he has blown threw the minors.

Art Vanderlay
07-23-08, 08:46 AM
Washburn is better than either of them, but I'm not going to attempt to convince you of that.

I agree.

R.V.47
07-23-08, 08:48 AM
Kay was talking about him yesterday. Saying that he may be the next guy to come up since he has blown threw the minors.

Buster Olney also mentioned him on BBTN last night, but I think Rasner has at least bought himself another start.

BRNXBMRS
07-23-08, 08:49 AM
Buster Olney also mentioned him on BBTN last night, but I think Rasner has at least bought himself another start.

No question, there was a stst this am saying that Rasners ERA is 3.45 (ish) when pitching to Moeller.

yankeesnumber1
07-23-08, 08:58 AM
I don't think either Rasner or Ponson deserved to be yanked. Yet.

I dont either. Even though the Yankees score 50 runs everytime Ponson starts, I think they have held it down lately.

Turn2
07-23-08, 09:35 AM
My concern with Ponson and Rasner is that they seem to be doing it with smoke and mirrors. I don't have their WHIP's in front of me but it seems like they've put a lot of men on base. It's only a matter of time until those runners start crossing home plate.

BRONXBOMBERS06
07-23-08, 09:38 AM
Ponson 1.61
Rasner 1.50

I agree they both seem to have runners on base all the time.

THEBOSS84
07-23-08, 10:04 AM
My concern with Ponson and Rasner is that they seem to be doing it with smoke and mirrors. I don't have their WHIP's in front of me but it seems like they've put a lot of men on base. It's only a matter of time until those runners start crossing home plate.

Agreed. They are always one pitch away from having the game get away from them.

NelsonMuntz
07-23-08, 10:13 AM
A few weeks ago I predicted that Aceves would replace either Rasner or Ponson before the end of the season. I stand by that prediction, but as someone else noted Aceves is still a few starts away due to his recent DL stint.

BRNXBMRS
07-23-08, 10:17 AM
Notes: Rasner is 3-2 with a 2.67 ERA when Moeller catches him, 2-5 with a 6.87 ERA when anyone else is behind the dish …
http://riveraveblues.com/

Even better than I originally posted.

TEPLimey
07-23-08, 10:27 AM
Ponson 1.61
Rasner 1.50

I agree they both seem to have runners on base all the time.
Ponson seems to play with fire all the time, but his career WHIP is 1.47, so this isn't really unlike him. He is bound to come crashing to earth eventually, but he is staying effective with the Yanks. Considering his performances to date, he probably has bought himself at least 3 more starts. If he is effective for at least 2 of those, there really is no reason to try to "upgrade" with an unknown quantity like Aceves.

Rasner is an entirely different story. He was effective for the beginning part of this season until they upped his pitch count to over 100 pitches for 2 consecutive starts. He seemed to lose some strength/control for a few (shorter) starts and then (once he gained it back), has suffered a dropoff after 3 consecutive 100+ pitch starts. However, he seems to be adjusting to the longer starts now (Monday was a good appearance). Also, in his prior 2 starts, the defense really let him down. Bobby Abreu tacked on at least 2 runs in that 1st inning against Toronto.

I am yet to be convinced that Aceves will be a better option than either of these two, who have been putting up decent numbers for 4 and 5 starter. Not to mention that the lesser of the 2 (IMO Ponson) will be relegated to the pen/AAA/dfa once Hughes returns.

The answer to our problems (notwithstanding our recent success) is a power-hitting DH (BondsBondsBondsBonds) or upgrade over Molina/Mueller/Melky. Our rotation and pen are pretty stable at this juncture.

NHYank
07-23-08, 10:28 AM
My concern with Ponson and Rasner is that they seem to be doing it with smoke and mirrors. I don't have their WHIP's in front of me but it seems like they've put a lot of men on base. It's only a matter of time until those runners start crossing home plate.[/quote]

I have to agree. I like the Washburn acquisition becauce it gives the yankees more flexibilty since he can start and relieve and it put Rasner or Ponson into long relief.

NewEraYanks2527
07-23-08, 10:29 AM
Where did all these options from the farm come from? Didn't the Yankees have a barren system a few years ago? I LOVE IT!

Rastven
07-23-08, 10:29 AM
Aceves is an option but until the guy is going 6+ IP with a low-ish ERA in AAA how could you even consider bringing him in even as the 5th starter? It would still leave us with 2 question marks in terms of how long the 4th and 5th starters would go and how much of a hole they would leave both the offence and bullpen in 2 out of every 5 days.

Cheesyhoboe
07-23-08, 10:37 AM
Aceves hasn't even gone more than 4 innings in any of his last 4 starts.

stupidpunchline
07-23-08, 10:42 AM
Hold your horses. Aceves has exactly 11 innings of AAA experience. Dan McCutchen and Jeff Karstens are both better options right now.

NelsonMuntz
07-23-08, 10:43 AM
Aceves hasn't even gone more than 4 innings in any of his last 4 starts.
As noted on the previous page, he is coming off the DL and building up arm strength.

NelsonMuntz
07-23-08, 10:45 AM
Hold your horses. Aceves has exactly 11 innings of AAA experience. Dan McCutchen and Jeff Karstens are both better options right now.
Aceves is not a true "prospect". He is a fairly polished pitcher with experience in the Mexican league. There is a reason he breezed through the system so quickly this year before he went on the DL.

Jeff Karstens is a better option than a teeball stand, maybe.

Rastven
07-23-08, 10:52 AM
They consider Mexican Ball to be AA to AAA standard so he has experience but so does Igawa if we consider Japan to be AAA to AAAA standard.

Let the guy build his arm strength and give him a decent shot at proving he can be a ML starter. Until then or one of the current guys at the back end really bombs I say we run what we brung.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-23-08, 10:55 AM
Aceves is an option but until the guy is going 6+ IP with a low-ish ERA in AAA how could you even consider bringing him in even as the 5th starter? It would still leave us with 2 question marks in terms of how long the 4th and 5th starters would go and how much of a hole they would leave both the offence and bullpen in 2 out of every 5 days.

Yup. I am not sold on Rasner and Ponson, but you can't expect Aceves to jump in and do any better than they are just yet. At this point Kennedy is better prepared to be promoted, and I don't even think he is ready for that yet.

BRNXBMRS
07-23-08, 10:59 AM
Rasner & Ponson are what they are. Rasner deserves to stay in the rotation and Ponson has been beyond lucky. Rasner is a decent 4th starter.

LeapsNbounds
07-23-08, 11:04 AM
Didn't Rasner and Ponson just pitch back to back decent games? Tough crowd here.

I think you have to be worried bout Rasner's arm. His IP over the last 2 seasons were

2006: 91.1
2007: 39.2

This year he has thrown 98 innings. I would be nervous that he won't stay strong the whole time.

Ponson, who knows when that ship will sink.

If we can trade for Washburn and keep Aceves in the wings, it will give us some great starting depth down the stretch.

We also have Wang hopefully coming back.

Rastven
07-23-08, 11:30 AM
I'd actually be looking to use guys like Aceves in a trade to get a player like Washburn. If we are looking to shore up the back end then known commodities seem to be a better bet. Even though Washburn isn't spectacular being a lefty he might do ok with the Yanks.

TEPLimey
07-23-08, 11:44 AM
I'd actually be looking to use guys like Aceves in a trade to get a player like Washburn. If we are looking to shore up the back end then known commodities seem to be a better bet. Even though Washburn isn't spectacular being a lefty he might do ok with the Yanks.
Doesn't Washburn sport an ERA+ of 84 and have 10M due to him next season?

Our rotation will be solidified later with the return of Wang, Hughes, and maybe Kennedy. Until then, Pettitte, Joba, and Moose combined for a very good 1-3 and Rasner and Ponson have been adequate at 4-5.

Notwithstanding our recent breakout, an offense that sports Melky, Molina, and Sexson/Betemit nightly is not going to continue to hit like they have. Upgrading the DH, C, or CF spot will yield much greater benefits than any marginal difference between Ponson/Rasner and Washburn for the 2 months until they are replaced from within.

Rastven
07-23-08, 12:03 PM
So what if we have to pay him 10mil if he helps us out.
He could also serve as a back of the rotation innings eater next season while Hughes gets his feet under him.
I'm thinking about ways to get the most out of the 20+ games that the 4th and 5th starter will go in the rest of the way.

ajra21
07-23-08, 12:09 PM
i believe you have to let aceves have more time in AAA, maybe 4 starts or so. that will allow to see what ponson/rasner are giving us.

mbn007
07-23-08, 12:13 PM
Kay was talking about him yesterday. Saying that he may be the next guy to come up since he has blown threw the minors.

Kay also said, and has said on several occasions, that he knows absolutely nothing about these kids in the Farm System.

These guys who do local sports shows should get a handle on the local teams Farm Systems. Especially these days, when teams try to promote from within, if possible.

ajra21
07-23-08, 12:15 PM
Kay also said, and has said on several occasions, that he knows absolutely nothing about these kids in the Farm System.

These guys who do local sports shows should get a handle on the local teams Farm Systems. Especially these days, when teams try to promote from within, if possible.

so true.

mbn007
07-23-08, 12:17 PM
i believe you have to let aceves have more time in AAA, maybe 4 starts or so. that will allow to see what ponson/rasner are giving us.

Trade deadline is in 8 days. Ponson and Rasner will each get 1 more start before that date.

Not much time to evaluate.

Rastven
07-23-08, 12:18 PM
While I agree that guys like Kay should be conversant with the MiLB guys he's not really an analyst. I'd rather guys like Leiter, Cone and Singleton concentrate on prospects.

Yankee Tripper
07-23-08, 12:20 PM
Trade deadline is in 8 days. Ponson and Rasner will each get 1 more start before that date.

Not much time to evaluate.I'm sure there are a number of guys who will clear waivers and be dealt in August. No front line guys but few middle to back of the rotation types.

mbn007
07-23-08, 12:20 PM
I think you have to be worried bout Rasner's arm. His IP over the last 2 seasons were

2006: 91.1
2007: 39.2

This year he has thrown 98 innings. I would be nervous that he won't stay strong the whole time.

Ponson, who knows when that ship will sink.

If we can trade for Washburn and keep Aceves in the wings, it will give us some great starting depth down the stretch.

We also have Wang hopefully coming back.

Need to remember that Wang should come back and give us 4-5 starts in September. Hughes may throw a few, as will Kennedy. So the options are there.

We will head into the playoffs with a rotation of Wang (well rested), Joba, Petitte and Moose. I will take my chances.

IMO, get another bat, but at a reasonable price as far as who to trade.

BRNXBMRS
07-23-08, 12:21 PM
Kay also said, and has said on several occasions, that he knows absolutely nothing about these kids in the Farm System.

These guys who do local sports shows should get a handle on the local teams Farm Systems. Especially these days, when teams try to promote from within, if possible.

I think Kay knows a little more thatn a certain fat host and a blabber mouth down the dial.

mbn007
07-23-08, 12:21 PM
I'm sure there are a number of guys who will clear waivers and be dealt in August. No front line guys but few middle to back of the rotation types.

Those types are probably not better than Rasner or Ponson. And, we get Wang back in September, so that will be like a late season pickup.

ajra21
07-23-08, 12:21 PM
Need to remember that Wang should come back and give us 4-5 starts in September. Hughes may throw a few, as will Kennedy. So the options are there.

We will head into the playoffs with a rotation of Wang (well rested), Joba, Petitte and Moose. I will take my chances.

IMO, get another bat, but at a reasonable price as far as who to trade.

no he won't.

mbn007
07-23-08, 12:22 PM
I think Kay knows a little more thatn a certain fat host and a blabber mouth down the dial.

He does. But comparing him to what those 2 know is not exactly a compliment. Those 2 are useless, a complete waste of oxygen.

mbn007
07-23-08, 12:23 PM
no he won't.

Yes he will.;)

TEPLimey
07-23-08, 12:25 PM
So what if we have to pay him 10mil if he helps us out.
He could also serve as a back of the rotation innings eater next season while Hughes gets his feet under him.
I'm thinking about ways to get the most out of the 20+ games that the 4th and 5th starter will go in the rest of the way.
The marginal improvement (if any) between Rasner/Ponson and Washburn that you would get for the next 2 months is simply not worth $10M. While I am all for flexing our financial muscle, we're smiply throwing money to our competitors via financial relief (Seattle) and luxury tax payments (Twins, Florida, TB, whoever).

Not to mention that the Yankees don't have unlimited money. Giving $10M+ to Washburn is preceisely the type of move that may hamstring our efforts to sign Sheets, Sabathia, Texiera, etc. this offseason, just like similar deals did with Beltran.

ajra21
07-23-08, 12:27 PM
Yes he will.;)

he's behind you!!!!

(does that translate to the USA?)

bigjf
07-23-08, 12:32 PM
Aceves hasn't even gone more than 4 innings in any of his last 4 starts.

For some reason, Aceves was doing relief duty in AAA (probably because he went on the DL not too long ago), but he is now being stretched out again. That's why so few innings. Last night he only threw 65 pitches.

Still, once he is sufficiently stretched out, I'd rather see him than Washburn.

mbn007
07-23-08, 12:38 PM
he's behind you!!!!

(does that translate to the USA?)

No.;)

I really do think Wang will be back. He wants to show that he can be counted on.

Besides, he has no shot in arbitration next year unless he does well down the stretch, and in the playoffs also.

Art Vanderlay
07-23-08, 12:44 PM
The marginal improvement (if any) between Rasner/Ponson and Washburn that you would get for the next 2 months is simply not worth $10M. While I am all for flexing our financial muscle, we're smiply throwing money to our competitors via financial relief (Seattle) and luxury tax payments (Twins, Florida, TB, whoever).

Not to mention that the Yankees don't have unlimited money. Giving $10M+ to Washburn is preceisely the type of move that may hamstring our efforts to sign Sheets, Sabathia, Texiera, etc. this offseason, just like similar deals did with Beltran.

There are a couple of problems with your logic:

1) The cost in players for Washburn is reported to be Igawa and a marginal prospect. You are not getting a hitter for that, so getting Washburn will not preclude them from getting the bat that we all agree they need.

2) We absorb the remaining 15 milllion for Wasburn, they absorb the remaining 14 million for Igawa. Money is not an issue and getting him will certainly not preclude them from signing free agents next winter.

Note: If they don't take Igawa's money, I would not make the deal.

TEPLimey
07-23-08, 01:31 PM
There are a couple of problems with your logic:

1) The cost in players for Washburn is reported to be Igawa and a marginal prospect. You are not getting a hitter for that, so getting Washburn will not preclude them from getting the bat that we all agree they need.

2) We absorb the remaining 15 milllion for Wasburn, they absorb the remaining 14 million for Igawa. Money is not an issue and getting him will certainly not preclude them from signing free agents next winter.

Note: If they don't take Igawa's money, I would not make the deal.
First, this is entirely based on best-case speculation about what the Yanks would have to give up. What makes you think that Seattle will trade a salary-dump for equal salary and a "marginal prospect"?

Second, I never said that they would be precluded from getting a bat, but only that netting Washburn would yield little improvement, if any.

Third, despite is terrible rep on these boards, Igawa does have some value. Not a great deal, but a lefty SP for $4M per over the nest 3 seasons is a trading chip and can be part of a package to a NL team in a big park (like the Padres). Washburn, on the other hand, has no value at this point.

WillC
07-23-08, 02:14 PM
First, this is entirely based on best-case speculation about what the Yanks would have to give up. What makes you think that Seattle will trade a salary-dump for equal salary and a "marginal prospect"?

Second, I never said that they would be precluded from getting a bat, but only that netting Washburn would yield little improvement, if any.

Third, despite is terrible rep on these boards, Igawa does have some value. Not a great deal, but a lefty SP for $4M per over the nest 3 seasons is a trading chip and can be part of a package to a NL team in a big park (like the Padres). Washburn, on the other hand, has no value at this point.

A lefty who has shown he can pitch in the Majors verse a lefty who can't pitch in the Majors? I am not sure the 5 Mil you save with Igawa counts as "value" when he just isn't a MLB pitcher. That is not saying I want Washburn, but he has more value to a MLB team than Igawa, even with the 10 Mil price tag, since he can actually pitch to MLBers.

Igawa would get us nothing but a grade C+ prospect, maybe B-. So if we can get Washburn for him even if the Yanks have to eat some of Igawa's contract, we should do it. Washburn's contract will not preclude the Yanks from getting anyone they want this offseason.

TEPLimey
07-23-08, 02:47 PM
A lefty who has shown he can pitch in the Majors verse a lefty who can't pitch in the Majors? I am not sure the 5 Mil you save with Igawa counts as "value" when he just isn't a MLB pitcher. That is not saying I want Washburn, but he has more value to a MLB team than Igawa, even with the 10 Mil price tag, since he can actually pitch to MLBers.

Igawa would get us nothing but a grade C+ prospect, maybe B-. So if we can get Washburn for him even if the Yanks have to eat some of Igawa's contract, we should do it. Washburn's contract will not preclude the Yanks from getting anyone they want this offseason.
3 years of Igawa at $5M per < 1+ year of Washburn at $17M as both a trading chip and a fill-in starter, IMO.

I am all for trading Igawa, but not for a guy who is worse than any of our current starters and costs extra $$$. After all, if Igawa can land us a C+/B- prospect, then maybe Igawa + a decent prospect can net us something that we can actually use instead of an expensive retread pitcher with an 84 ERA+ and 0 trade value and 0 upside.

Mr.Muhozi
07-23-08, 02:53 PM
he's behind you!!!!

(does that translate to the USA?)

it's a shame this joke will be lost amongst many

Lumen
07-23-08, 04:22 PM
Aceves is an option but until the guy is going 6+ IP with a low-ish ERA in AAA how could you even consider bringing him in even as the 5th starter? It would still leave us with 2 question marks in terms of how long the 4th and 5th starters would go and how much of a hole they would leave both the offence and bullpen in 2 out of every 5 days.I strongly agree. Until Rasner or Ponson demonstrate they are incapabalbe of keeping us in games; Aceves needs to rehabilitate and adjust in AAA. The rotation is not in enough of a bind to rush another pitcher (albeit a seasoned one) to the majors.

primetime714
07-23-08, 04:38 PM
The marginal improvement (if any) between Rasner/Ponson and Washburn that you would get for the next 2 months is simply not worth $10M. While I am all for flexing our financial muscle, we're smiply throwing money to our competitors via financial relief (Seattle) and luxury tax payments (Twins, Florida, TB, whoever).

Not to mention that the Yankees don't have unlimited money. Giving $10M+ to Washburn is preceisely the type of move that may hamstring our efforts to sign Sheets, Sabathia, Texiera, etc. this offseason, just like similar deals did with Beltran.

I agree. If it only took Igawa straight up, I'd think about it. Still I feel like Washburn could help a little bit this year, but next year his salary is going to be a complete burden. 10M next year even when you subtract the 4M from Igawa's 09' salary definitely does take money out of our pool to spend next offseason. Then when you consider his 10M salary there will be pressure to keep a rotation spot for him next year when we should be looking to give it to better options.

I might deal for Washburn on the hope that he can help us down the stretch and be used as a trading chip in the offseason. Otherwise it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Going into this offseason I expect the Yankees to make a strong push for CC and offer 1 year deals/arbitration to Pettitte and Moose. That leaves them with 6 starters not including Washburn.

Vin R.
07-24-08, 01:44 PM
He's not ready yet, right now i think he only has a 65 pitch limit. Give him three more weeks and then we will see.

Dynasties R Forever
07-24-08, 08:45 PM
So what if we have to pay him 10mil if he helps us out.
He could also serve as a back of the rotation innings eater next season while Hughes gets his feet under him.
I'm thinking about ways to get the most out of the 20+ games that the 4th and 5th starter will go in the rest of the way.

Trading ANY decent asset for him would be a waste. Send them Igawa.

Or just bring up one of the kids for a lot less than $10 mill a year, lol.

I'd like to avoid having a dud in the rotation next year blocking one of our youngsters. I'd rather not have him at all. Let's get a hitter instead!

False1
07-24-08, 10:01 PM
I agree. If it only took Igawa straight up, I'd think about it. Still I feel like Washburn could help a little bit this year, but next year his salary is going to be a complete burden. 10M next year even when you subtract the 4M from Igawa's 09' salary definitely does take money out of our pool to spend next offseason. Then when you consider his 10M salary there will be pressure to keep a rotation spot for him next year when we should be looking to give it to better options.

I might deal for Washburn on the hope that he can help us down the stretch and be used as a trading chip in the offseason. Otherwise it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Going into this offseason I expect the Yankees to make a strong push for CC and offer 1 year deals/arbitration to Pettitte and Moose. That leaves them with 6 starters not including Washburn.I think Washburn could help more than a little this year. He is an upgrade over Ras or Ponson if the cost is Igawa. He has two bad starts that skew his numbers this year. His last 10 starts have been very good. He's pitched well at YS (albeit only 38 IP, but still...).

Plus, unless the Yankees think that Igawa is going to crack this rotation or even the bullpen any time soon, they're into him for $8MM for 2 years. If he goes to Seattle, we're really only talking a $2MM difference. And if Washburn does come to the Yankees and pitches well, a LH SP would have some trade value, especially if the Yanks picked up a few buckets of cash.

I agree with TEPLimey - they need bats more than they need a SP... but to me if Seattle goes straight up for Igawa I pull the trigger in an instant. You haven't lost any chips to go after more important peices and you get a solid #4/5. I'm not ready to call Rasner or Ponson solid. I'm shocked (pleasantly) every time I see Ponson not get rocked frankly.