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Metroidman
07-12-08, 06:19 PM
Ok right now the payroll is 210mil

I'm gonna subtract the following players

Giambi = 23mil
Abreu = 16mil
Pavano = 11mil
Moose = 11mil
Pettitte = 16mil
Farnsworth = 6mil
Hawkins = 3.75mil

Ok so thats' 86.8mil coming off the books in 2009 if we dont bring anyone back and I dont think we should

Brings our payroll to 123.2mil

I think the Yanks want to stay under the lux tax next year so that leaves them 37mil or so to play around with in FA money. I think they'll go after CC hard and get him for around 20mil per or so leaving them 17mil more to play with. Crushes my hopes for Texeria and CC but I think they might sign someone else cheap. Hopefully they get some cheaper replacements that can offer decent production.

primetime714
07-12-08, 07:08 PM
I don't think the Yankees care that much about the luxury tax. They care more about winning and will look to sign two high profile FAs (CC, Teix, Sheets) and possibly bring some of those guys back on 1 year deals (Pettitte, Giambi, and/or Moose) and also maybe add one lesser FA like Marte for a lefty in the bullpen and to replace Farns.

My guess is the Yankees will look to spend about 60-70M and will stay under 200M, however I doubt they have any real serious thoughts about getting under the luxury tax as that would significantly hurt their chances of fielding a competitive team.

You can't replace all those guys leaving via FA AND improve this team to where they'd be a championship team with 37M. Other than possibly Jackson who probably won't be ready until midseason we only have more bullpen guys coming from the minors. We'd need a lot to go right to stay under the luxury tax and field a real competitive team.

Brick Tamland
07-12-08, 07:14 PM
Ok right now the payroll is 210mil

I'm gonna subtract the following players

Giambi = 23mil
Abreu = 16mil
Pavano = 11mil
Moose = 11mil
Pettitte = 16mil
Farnsworth = 6mil
Hawkins = 3.75mil

Ok so thats' 86.8mil coming off the books in 2009 if we dont bring anyone back and I dont think we should

Brings our payroll to 123.2mil

I think the Yanks want to stay under the lux tax next year so that leaves them 37mil or so to play around with in FA money. I think they'll go after CC hard and get him for around 20mil per or so leaving them 17mil more to play with. Crushes my hopes for Texeria and CC but I think they might sign someone else cheap. Hopefully they get some cheaper replacements that can offer decent production.


You don't think they should bring Pettitte back if he agrees to sign a 1 yr contract for reasonable money (very likely seeing as he hinted at it during an interview in Houston)?

ppa79
07-13-08, 09:38 AM
Ok right now the payroll is 210mil

I'm gonna subtract the following players

Giambi = 23mil
Abreu = 16mil
Pavano = 11mil
Moose = 11mil
Pettitte = 16mil
Farnsworth = 6mil
Hawkins = 3.75mil

Ok so thats' 86.8mil coming off the books in 2009 if we dont bring anyone back and I dont think we should

Brings our payroll to 123.2mil

I think the Yanks want to stay under the lux tax next year so that leaves them 37mil or so to play around with in FA money. I think they'll go after CC hard and get him for around 20mil per or so leaving them 17mil more to play with. Crushes my hopes for Texeria and CC but I think they might sign someone else cheap. Hopefully they get some cheaper replacements that can offer decent production.

Lets hope someone will take Igawa off our hands. Put him on waviers and hope someone claims him. Subtract another 4 mil.

90.8 mil.

We can still get CC and Sheets. CC for 20 mil and Sheets for 15 mil. Then use our pitching depth to get some offensive players.

ppa79
07-13-08, 09:54 AM
My estimate:

Sign CC (20), Tex (20), and Sheets(15) for a combined 55 million dollars a year. I think Tex is worth more in the 17-18, but I put 20 mil in my calculations. If we sign Tex, I would consider trading Matsui and save 13 mil and put Miranda at DH. The only problem with this team is that our outfield is dreadful, but I have no clue what to do for the outfield. No good outfielders are free agents. However I love our rotation and bullpen. I gave Wang a slight raise from last year. I don't think he'll make a lot in arbitration since he missed most of this season.

Rotation
1 SP Sheets 15
2 SP CC 20
3 SP Wang 5
4 SP Hughes 0.3
5 SP Joba 0.3

Bullpen
6 RP Rivera 15
7 RP Veras 0.3
8 RP Robertson 0.3
9 RP Ramirez 0.3
10 RP Bruney 0.3
11 RP Cox 0.3

Infielder Starters
12 1B Texiera 20
13 2B Cano 6
14 SS Jeter 20
15 3B Arod 32
16 C Posada 13.1
17 CF Melky 0.3
18 LF Damon 13
19 RF Gardner 0.3
20 DH Matsui 13

Bench
21 C Molina 2
22 Infielder Betemit 0.3
23 Infielder Gonzalez 0.3
24 Outfielder Christain 0.3
25 Outfielder Duncan 0.3

178


Luxury Tax for 2009 166

WestCoastBiaS
07-13-08, 11:05 AM
Does Giambi's 5M buyout count towards this year or next year in terms of luxury tax?

ppa79
07-13-08, 11:08 AM
Does Giambi's 5M buyout count towards this year or next year in terms of luxury tax?

I would think so. Plus Pavano's 2 million dollar buyout.

wang+cano=future
07-13-08, 12:39 PM
You don't think they will go after either Marte or Fuentes or both when they reach free agency this offseason?

ppa79
07-13-08, 01:11 PM
You don't think they will go after either Marte or Fuentes or both when they reach free agency this offseason?

Rather spend the money on more impact players, ie. Sheets, CC, and Tex.

bigjf
07-13-08, 01:37 PM
If I'm not mistaken, don't the Yanks get to avoid the luxury tax for like the first 3 years of opening a new stadium? If that's the case, I don't think it's an issue in the short-term. I've just had enough of overpaying for guys with long injury history, so as good as he is, I say no to Sheets.

ppa79
07-13-08, 01:44 PM
If I'm not mistaken, don't the Yanks get to avoid the luxury tax for like the first 3 years of opening a new stadium? If that's the case, I don't think it's an issue in the short-term. I've just had enough of overpaying for guys with long injury history, so as good as he is, I say no to Sheets.

I like Sheets because when he is healthy he is a top of the rotation pitcher. Unlike Pavano or Wright. They were never top of the rotation pitchers even when healthy.

I think of Sheets like Schilling. He had some injury problems early in his career, but was able to string a couple of healthy years together can be a dominate force.

But you do bring up valid points.

bigjf
07-13-08, 01:52 PM
I like Sheets because when he is healthy he is a top of the rotation pitcher. Unlike Pavano or Wright. They were never top of the rotation pitchers even when healthy.

I think of Sheets like Schilling. He had some injury problems early in his career, but was able to string a couple of healthy years together can be a dominate force.

But you do bring up valid points.

I just get the feeling with Sheets that he's delivering in his walk year and that he'll get his contract and then take a couple of years off because suddenly his eyelid is twitching so he needs to go on the 60 day DL. It just sounds a little too familiar...

If I didn't think he'd command top dollar, or close to it, as a FA, I'd be ok with taking the risk because he is that good. But I can just see him being another waste of money. And even though Wright wasn't a great signing, EVERYONE wanted Pavano that off-season. He just happened to become our embarrassment.

ICEBERG18
07-13-08, 01:53 PM
I like Sheets because when he is healthy he is a top of the rotation pitcher. Unlike Pavano or Wright. They were never top of the rotation pitchers even when healthy.

I think of Sheets like Schilling. He had some injury problems early in his career, but was able to string a couple of healthy years together can be a dominate force.

But you do bring up valid points.

I'm with you on Sheets and adding CC & Tex.

I'm really leaning towards the option of making Farnsworth, Giambi, Andy, Mussina & Abreu available in trades. If Cash can get what he thinks is a quality offer for either of those players he should make the deal, but that's just my opinion.

bigjf
07-13-08, 01:59 PM
I'm with you on Sheets and adding CC & Tex.

I'm really leaning towards the option of making Farnsworth, Giambi, Andy, Mussina & Abreu available in trades. If Cash can get what he thinks is a quality offer for either of those players he should make the deal, but that's just my opinion.

That's not really an "option" because the Yankees probably aren't going to be sellers mid-season like that, especially not where they are right now at the deadline. True the competition is good in the AL East, but the Yankees are technically sitting better than they were this time last year. So based on that, I'd be surprised if they sold off guys like that. I know Giambi has a no-trade clause that he's refused to waive in the past, and Andy probably has the same thing, maybe Mussina as well. Girardi loves Farnsworth and will want to keep him as they continue to compete. If they trade Abreu, it would have to be for some good prospects, and as a rental it just isn't going to happen.

ICEBERG18
07-13-08, 02:02 PM
That's not really an "option" because the Yankees probably aren't going to be sellers mid-season like that, especially not where they are right now at the deadline. True the competition is good in the AL East, but the Yankees are technically sitting better than they were this time last year. So based on that, I'd be surprised if they sold off guys like that. I know Giambi has a no-trade clause that he's refused to waive in the past, and Andy probably has the same thing, maybe Mussina as well. Girardi loves Farnsworth and will want to keep him as they continue to compete. If they trade Abreu, it would have to be for some good prospects, and as a rental it just isn't going to happen.
If that's the Yankees position, then I'll be happy with the picks but I would not bring any of those players back.

bigjf
07-13-08, 02:05 PM
If that's the Yankees position, then I'll be happy with the picks but I would not bring any of those players back.

I probably wouldn't either, but I could see a scenario where the Yanks bring all or most of those players back in the short-term, especially Pettitte and Mussina, maybe even Giambi.

ppa79
07-13-08, 02:09 PM
I just get the feeling with Sheets that he's delivering in his walk year and that he'll get his contract and then take a couple of years off because suddenly his eyelid is twitching so he needs to go on the 60 day DL. It just sounds a little too familiar...

If I didn't think he'd command top dollar, or close to it, as a FA, I'd be ok with taking the risk because he is that good. But I can just see him being another waste of money. And even though Wright wasn't a great signing, EVERYONE wanted Pavano that off-season. He just happened to become our embarrassment.

Like I said before you do bring up valid points about his injury history. And I agree signing him does bring huge risks.

I don't know maybe I just seduced by the vision that he could be our version of Schilling when healthy. :drool: :drool: :drool:

bigjf
07-13-08, 02:12 PM
Like I said before you do bring up valid points about his injury history. And I agree signing him does bring huge risks.

I don't know maybe I just seduced by the vision that he could be our version of Schilling when healthy. :drool: :drool: :drool:

You have a fair point as well. I probably would stay away, but I won't cry and scream if the Yanks go after him this off-season either.

ICEBERG18
07-13-08, 02:18 PM
I probably would stay away, but I won't cry and scream if the Yanks go after him this off-season either.

Especially if it's CC to go along with Sheets.

bigjf
07-13-08, 05:05 PM
Especially if it's CC to go along with Sheets.

Right.

Allan
07-13-08, 09:49 PM
I just get the feeling with Sheets that he's delivering in his walk year and that he'll get his contract and then take a couple of years off because suddenly his eyelid is twitching so he needs to go on the 60 day DL. It just sounds a little too familiar...

You think these players can deliver whenever they feel like it or because it's their walk year? Interesting. And what makes you think Sheets is "Pavano- like" with eye twitches or other lame injuries? A little unfounded I would think, but that's just me.

Hellsing
07-14-08, 12:02 AM
Sign CC.
Do not sign Pettitte and Moose.
Sign Tex if the price is....acceptable.

This is going to sound crazy...

Sign Oliver Perez!

Pros:

LHP that absolutely dominates when he is on
Young
Relatively cost effective 4-5th starter that has Ace potential

Cons:

Wild
Not a big innings eater

ThePinStripes
07-14-08, 01:13 AM
Fix the outfielder problem in 2010 when you have Damon's money to work with ($13M) and a better market, hopefully.

While they are talking about lowering their payroll, they aren't exactly practicing what they preach with the signings they had this year. A-rod? Mo? Po? Lots of year and lots of dollars.

At this point, they are better off getting CC and Sheets because without them, we aren't going to October. I hear October sells tickets. If CC + Sheets costs us an additional $30M(over whoever would take their spot), that is only 3 more games at yankee stadium in october... assuming the average seat is $180 (and it's wayyyy more. and that's not including YES revenue boost, apparel, parking or sales at the stadium)

$30M / 3 games = $10M/game
$10M/55,000 = ~$180

Nome
07-14-08, 06:42 AM
I am certain that the Yankees will bring back Moose, Pettitte, Abreau and possibly Giambi, if Giambi agrees to a substantial cut. Then the Yankees will probably participate heavily in the FA marked for a power hitting OF (possibly but not necessarily getting rid of Melky) and a high powered Pitcher. Frankly next years payroll could well exceed this years esp if Steinbrenner wants a chance at a WS in the first year of the new YS

Andy

nhyankeefan
07-14-08, 06:49 AM
If I'm not mistaken, don't the Yanks get to avoid the luxury tax for like the first 3 years of opening a new stadium? If that's the case, I don't think it's an issue in the short-term. I've just had enough of overpaying for guys with long injury history, so as good as he is, I say no to Sheets.

The Yanks avoid revenue sharing payments, not luxury tax payments for the new stadium.

JL25and3
07-14-08, 08:58 AM
That's not really an "option" because the Yankees probably aren't going to be sellers mid-season like that, especially not where they are right now at the deadline. True the competition is good in the AL East, but the Yankees are technically sitting better than they were this time last year. So based on that, I'd be surprised if they sold off guys like that. I know Giambi has a no-trade clause that he's refused to waive in the past, and Andy probably has the same thing, maybe Mussina as well. Girardi loves Farnsworth and will want to keep him as they continue to compete. If they trade Abreu, it would have to be for some good prospects, and as a rental it just isn't going to happen.Mussina is 10-and-5, so he's automatically got a no-trade.

THEBOSS84
07-14-08, 09:03 AM
Mussina is 10-and-5, so he's automatically got a no-trade.

And he's also never won a ring, so if he can be traded to a championship contender for the final 2+ months of the year and he says no, he's a loser.

bigjf
07-14-08, 09:28 AM
You think these players can deliver whenever they feel like it or because it's their walk year? Interesting. And what makes you think Sheets is "Pavano- like" with eye twitches or other lame injuries? A little unfounded I would think, but that's just me.

Maybe he isn't "Pavano-like." That level is legendary.

But don't you find it interesting how some of these players wind up on the DL for the smallest injuries but then manage to throw 200 innings once they're in their walk year? Of course it's not every player and it's probably just coincidence, but it is pretty damn convenient.

I know if I just signed a big contract I'd be tempted to take a couple of weeks off here and there, especially if my team was out of contention or if there was no energy in the ballpark. Meanwhile, if I was about to be a free agent, I'd try a little extra to prove I'm worth another contract.

Take Giambi for example. Did anyone realistically expect that he'd last this long this year as basically the everyday first baseman? I'm personally amazed he's stayed healthy. I won't go as far as to call it a conspiracy, but it's interesting that this year he's suddenly warranting discussions about picking up his expensive option next year. I bet he'd love that idea.

Donpaulbernmo
07-14-08, 11:10 AM
I could have sworn that I read somewhere that the Yanks won't be affected by the luxury tax because they will be able to deduct the money spent on the new stadium. Maybe that's only for their revenues, and perhaps the payroll tax is a different monster.

I'm not exactly 100% sure of that, so if anyone could clarify? :)

mbn007
07-14-08, 11:20 AM
Sign CC.
Do not sign Pettitte and Moose.
Sign Tex if the price is....acceptable.

This is going to sound crazy...

Sign Oliver Perez!

Pros:

LHP that absolutely dominates when he is on
Young
Relatively cost effective 4-5th starter that has Ace potential

Cons:

Wild
Not a big innings eater

Not an innings eater, and seems to pitch poorly when the competition is not "big", like the Yankees. Besides, someone will offer him 4 years, at 11-12 per, and to me that is a waste of money, big time.

mbn007
07-14-08, 11:26 AM
Lots of solid posts above. I believe that the Yankees will offer Farnsworth a 1-2 year deal, but at less money. If he likes playing for Girardi, he may take it. Giambi will get an offer because there really is no replacement for him. He is getting $5 million anyway as a buyout, and I can see a 2 year deal in the 12-13 million range, per year.

My guess is Petitte or Moose gets an offer for next year, but not both. And a 1 year deal. Since neither one is going to have many teams after them (Moose will only play near his home town, so that means Baltimore, Washington and Philly, besides the Yankees. And Petitte will stay a Yankee, or probably retire. Can't see him going back to Houston), it should come down to the Yankees picking one, and getting that pitcher at their price.

I really believe that Sabathia is the number 1 target for the Yankees this off-season. I doubt Sheets is a target because of his history with injuries. And while I would love Tex here, I believe that Baltimore will blow everyone out of the water with a wild offer (7 years, 140 million) and that will be enough, as that is "home" for Tex.

Yankees47
07-14-08, 11:26 AM
[quote=Metroidman]Ok right now the payroll is 210mil

I'm gonna subtract the following players

Giambi = 23mil
Abreu = 16mil
Pavano = 11mil
Moose = 11mil
Pettitte = 16mil
Farnsworth = 6mil
Hawkins = 3.75mil

Ok so thats' 86.8mil coming off the books in 2009 if we dont bring anyone back and I dont think we should

This is where the yankees have gone bad...Over the past three years they have worried wayyyy too much about $..The Yankees have more money than any other franchise in sports between the new stadium coming in, 4.5 million tix sold a year, all the merchandise sold...they have got to the point where they fear either spending big money or making a big trade and that is exactly what this team needs again..If the Steinbrenners (Hank or George) still had control of baseball operations I could bet you that Dice K and Santana would both be on the Yankees right now...Seriously how did Cashman foul up Dice K...Cashman is running the Yankees like they are the Florida Marlins, I want to see us get back to our old ways and start making some deals and signing some BIG name guys that are entering the prime of their career...Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that the Yankees should gut the entire farm system but I feel that the farm system is to help the big leauge team..Why not Trade Jesus Montero and Austin Jackson for a Matt Holiday? Holliday is entering the prime of his career and has proven that he can Hit in the major leagues...Montero and Jackson at BEST I dont see being nearly as good as Holiday anyways..Prospects are prospects for a reason, they say only 10 percent of prospects live up to their billing so we are relying on young players this year such as (Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, Cano) and all four have failed us miserably this year..Their is no way around it..The Vets are the ones that are coming thru (Giambi, Moose, Farns, MO as usual) I understand you need a balance of young guys and old guys but I really think Cash and the Yanks are really overrating this farm systerm thing

mbn007
07-14-08, 11:29 AM
Fix the outfielder problem in 2010 when you have Damon's money to work with ($13M) and a better market, hopefully.


Actually, Damon and Matsui come off the books after 2009, so that is 26 million, and a lot of age coming off.;)

Nome
07-14-08, 11:49 AM
And he's also never won a ring, so if he can be traded to a championship contender for the final 2+ months of the year and he says no, he's a loser.

What an idiotic comment. Why is a player a loser if they don't accept a trade to a potential pennant contender rather than the Yankees??? Besides as Yogi has so eloquently said "It ain't over till it's over." The Yankees have never been bashful about spending money. Do you think Moose would agree to a trade to a possible contender when the Yankees will probably be in the race down to the wire and if they get even a wild card slot they have as much chance to win it as anyone. Their pitching can get healthy in Sept and October and their offense can get hot, living up to it's potential while any team Moose might get traded to can fall into an October swoon like the Mets did last year.
You seem to have an obsession to trades. How many fantasy baseball leagues do you participate in?

THEBOSS84
07-14-08, 11:58 AM
What an idiotic comment. Why is a player a loser if they don't accept a trade to a potential pennant contender rather than the Yankees??? Besides as Yogi has so eloquently said "It ain't over till it's over." The Yankees have never been bashful about spending money. Do you think Moose would agree to a trade to a possible contender when the Yankees will probably be in the race down to the wire and if they get even a wild card slot they have as much chance to win it as anyone. Their pitching can get healthy in Sept and October and their offense can get hot, living up to it's potential while any team Moose might get traded to can fall into an October swoon like the Mets did last year.
You seem to have an obsession to trades. How many fantasy baseball leagues do you participate in?

Hey wise guy. Would the Yankees consider trading Moose if they thought they could win this year? Obviously not. This is all hypothetical. I thought that would be obvious, but apparently you can't put two and two together. No need to start a fight with me.

KeithF40
07-16-08, 08:06 AM
I have thought about this extensively, but yeah they dont care about saving money.

Giambi = 23mil
5 million dollar buyout, so they can get a guy with a sick ops for 17m, cause he is owed 22 next year, for a year and hope he doesnt get injured again, kind of tempting
if tex is too much money, which i think he will be, then i think they go this way as first is a position that anyone can play and one of the older guys like posada or jeter could move there

Abreu = 16mil
depends on the young players, no better rf out there in the fa market, bradley is just too much of a question mark at this point, can he get a full year in and not blow up, i think they sign him to a one year deal at a slightly lower rate say 13 or 14, give the young players one more year to develop

Pavano = 11mil
haha

Moose = 11mil
depends on if they sign in fa market
gone unforunately

Pettitte = 16mil
depends on fa market, if anyone is signed hes gone

Farnsworth = 6mil
i think resigned to a cheaper contract

Hawkins = 3.75mil
yeah who had this bright idea, oh yeah cash the idiot

FA:
wang, joba, hughes all definite starters next year so that leave 1-2 spots to fill

possibilities:
andy possibly but i think not
cc, sheets (i dont know what milw is doing is this an all or nothing fla marlins year)
not much more out there, personally i think besides burnett, but crappy year, might be good for contract purposes, and although this guy has great stuff and is a good pitcher, has he ever lived up to expectations

now to hitters cause who really cares about relievers, did you hear that cash

set at c, 2b, ss, 3b, cf(mostly cause there is no one else out there who is better than melky the hack, vomits)

rf we discussed already

1b yeppers

lf is the biggest question mark

i think matsui is just too injury prone but what do u do with him, no one wants to pay him 13m next year, i think were stuck with the contract for another year and we have to think of him as an alou type guy, good when he plays, but dont count on this guy

damon never gets injured but now he is, and he played, poorly, through injuries last year

odds are one will be healthy at each point in the season but there are some good options out there

1 bradley, discussed already
switch hitter 30 yo next year

2 dunn lefty
great ops, hr, slg, obp, bb
horrible avg, so rate, speed
basically just giambi in disguise
29 yo next year
extremely consistent
never gets injured

3 burrell righty
exactly the same as dunn except a little less power
32 next year
not as consistent as dunn, but who is

i dont like signing players past their mid 30s so u can get dunn at long term but burrell at mid term

i think they are going to use the supply to their advantage, or else i hope to, and then make the most economical decision

dunn is lefty, tailor made for yankee stadium but they want another righty

CONCLUSION:
if they get tex, a switch hitter, they let giambi go and sign dunn to left and DH damon so we get
1b-tex
2b-cano
ss-jeter
3b-arod
lf-dunn
cf-melky
rf-abreu
c-posada
dh-damon/matsui

if they dont get tex then this
1b-giambi
2b-cano
ss-jeter
3b-arod
c-posada
lf-burrell
dh-damon/mat
rf-abreu

I think yanks sign cc or sheets at 20 per and andy or burnett at 16 per

so 36 there

farns at 3.5

abreu at 13

giambi at 17 or tex at 20 i think tex though so 20 there

dunn at 18, burrell at 16 i think dunn so 18

so total 36+3.5+13+20+18+3

3 is for relievers or some bum for the bench

TOTAL: 93.5

SO YES MORE MONEY NEXT YEAR WOO HOO

BRIGHT SPOT:
mat, damon, abreu off the books for 2010, 10 looked too weird for me haha

so thats 39 million and they dont really need to spend after that

you should have aj or tab up by then to play right and for dh dont really have to worry, maybe someone from minors or just keep it as an open spot to rotate old players to get some rest and get a decent role player at a few million to play the positions a betemit type but doesnt suck

probably get salary down a good 35 so down 30 from here so down to 180 i can live with that

ArodMVP217
07-16-08, 08:57 AM
IF we get teixeira, i think we can take the cheap(er) path in the outfield by letting abreu go (teams will offer him 3-4 yrs for his rbi total) and seeing if anyone would offer anything for sui/damon +cash.

It would take more than a flier for milton Bradley; we should look into that, though. and jRivera and baldelli as noted above. maybe make a play for Victorino or Tavares if melky doesn't show improvement

Gone: Abreu, Matsui(?)

09OF: Damon/Rivera, Cabrera/Victorino, Bradley/Rivera
Melk is not getting much at arby hearings, so we are saving 20 mil if we can unload Hideki-san

no way: Dunn, Burrell, they are great players, but pass

and we can use our pitching depth in teh minors to get some stud OF prospects; rasmus, maybin, fowler, to go along with A-Jax and Tabata in the high minors

False1
07-16-08, 09:40 AM
Ok right now the payroll is 210mil

I'm gonna subtract the following players

Giambi = 23mil
Abreu = 16mil
Pavano = 11mil
Moose = 11mil
Pettitte = 16mil
Farnsworth = 6mil
Hawkins = 3.75mil

Ok so thats' 86.8mil coming off the books in 2009 if we dont bring anyone back and I dont think we should

Brings our payroll to 123.2mil

I think the Yanks want to stay under the lux tax next year so that leaves them 37mil or so to play around with in FA money. I think they'll go after CC hard and get him for around 20mil per or so leaving them 17mil more to play with. Crushes my hopes for Texeria and CC but I think they might sign someone else cheap. Hopefully they get some cheaper replacements that can offer decent production.I think they want to reduce the lux tax, and they are shedding some massive contracts this year, but I think the A-Rod deal pretty much killed any chance of them being under the salary cap anytime soon. I think his deal is ~20% of the cap, no? Still, much better to pay lux tax on $10MM or so than $40MM!

primetime714
07-16-08, 10:18 AM
Alright so I've refined my plan and think I've got it all set now:

Sign:
CC- 20M per- 6 years- 09' Salary 18M
Teix- 20M per- 7 years (w/buyout for 7th year)- 09' Salary 18M
Pettitte- 1 year 14M- Andy takes a slight pay cut
Moose- offered arbitration- settle on a 1 year 10M
Milton Bradley- 3 year deal at 13M per- 09' Salary 12M
Juan Rivera- 1 year 4M deal
Damaso Marte- 3 year deal 6M per- 09 Salary 5M

=81M spent + 5M buyout for Giambi and we're right back where we are this year, but with a significantly better team and money coming off the books next year.

I know there are plans to cut the payroll this year, but with a good FA market I think you hold those plans off until next year and bring back your vets and make a run in the first year of the new stadium.

LF/CF- Damon
SS- Jeter
DH- Matsui
3B- ARod
1B- Teixeira
2B- Cano
RF/CF- Bradley
C- Posada
CF/OF- Melky/Gardner/Rivera

Teixeira and Bradley give us younger switch hitting versions of Giambi and Abreu. Juan Rivera gives us a right handed bat off the bench, injury insurance, and will push Melky and Gardner as Damon or Bradley could play some CF for us.

Rotation:
CC
Wang
Pettitte
Joba
Moose/Hughes

CC IMO is an obvious sign if he is willing to play here. I say bring back both Pettitte and Moose if they are willing to come back and do so at a slightly reduced salary. You can never have enough pitching and in the off chance everyone is healthy and pitching well we can figure out something.

Bullpen:
Mo
Veras
Marte
Edwar
Robertson
Cox
LR- Kennedy, Rasner, Horne, or McCutchen

-No lefty's in the system and Marte is one of the best, sign him to replace Farnsworth.

Trade Bait: Kennedy, Ohlendorf, Tabata, Horne, McCutchen, Marquez, Britton

Picks: we lose our 1st (CC), 2nd (Teix), 3rd (Bradley), 4th (Marte) - Assuming all are type A which they probably will be- we get a 1st and Sandwich (Abreu), another Sandwich (Farnsworth). So about a fair tradeoff in terms of picks if you ask me if you're going to go after those Type A's it makes sense to grab them all in one offseason.

End Result: New York Yankees 2009 World Series Champions.

teknetic
07-16-08, 10:34 AM
The more I think about it, the more I doubt Cash brings Giambi back. I don't think he was enamored with the signing in the first place and with Matsui's knee and age getting up there, you need the DH slot. I'm expecting to be disappointed in the fact we don't sign either of the big three to be honest.

THEBOSS84
07-16-08, 10:37 AM
The more I think about it, the more I doubt Cash brings Giambi back. I don't think he was enamored with the signing in the first place and with Matsui's knee and age getting up there, you need the DH slot. I'm expecting to be disappointed in the fact we don't sign either of the big three to be honest.

If the Yanks let $85M off the payroll and don't sign any of the big 3, I'd be floored. I will guarantee at least one of them.

aeromac76
07-16-08, 11:14 AM
If the Yanks let $85M off the payroll and don't sign any of the big 3, I'd be floored. I will guarantee at least one of them.

I agree and I think they'll shoot for 2 of them..

I see them going all in for Sabathia.
I also see them going all in for Texeira.

After that, I think they'll look to see what they can do in the bullpen.
You would have Sabathia, Wang and Joba to start with. Hopefully Hughes is healthy and gets to a point where we think he can be and thought he was going to be this year.
I do think Moose and Pettitte have earned the right to be spoken to about a one year deal. One of them coming back makes sense, and there is your rotation. The depth comes from the minors where our young starters down there should have another year of experience and hopefully, as a whole, the team top to bottom is healthier.

The lineup returns Damon, Jeter, Matsui, Arod, Cano and Posada.
You add Tex to the mix. Let's assume Posada and Molina backing up cover the C spot.
SS, 3B, 2B and 1B are all covered. So now you get to the OF and DH. I am sure given the age on some of these players finding a suitable DH will not be a problem day in and day out. LF is probably the one of Matsui and Damon not DHing that day.
You then have CF and RF to cover. Melky and Gardner are in the mix if not dealt.
I would not bring back Abreu. Perhaps Ajax could be ready for one of those spots. I do not think Tabata is that close yet.

The pen I would like to see start to take shape right after the ASB.
You have Mo, we know that.
You figure Edwar is in the mix. Guys like Melancon, Cox and Sanchez should be ready to make a meaningful contribution I hope. We have a plethora of riches in MiLB to take up some spots.
I do think we need a lefty. Not a specialist, a real Mike Stanton lefty who can get anyone and their mothers out. None of this Traber or Myers act. I mean a hard throwing guy. A guys out of the Marte/Fuentes/R Perez mold. A guy who is death on lefties but is pretty tough on righties as well. An end of the game type guy, not some 6th inning LOOGY who will probably walk Ortiz while nibbling and then get removed from the game or stay on to give up a moonball to Manny.
If you want to break the bank, you could always pitch a LTD to KRod. He can set up for Mo, and even close on occasion when Mo needs a break, for the next 2 years. When Mo goes into the sunset, he is the closer. It would take a 5 year deal with closer type money, and even then it may not fly with him, but I could see it as a possibility, albeit a remote one.

If we can pull this off, I would be ready to go back to war in 2009. If you really want to go after a Ben Sheets and break the bank instead of targeting Pettitte/Moose, I could see that as well. It will be a longer term deal, but for next year's payroll only, probably would not make a huge difference.

Dustin563
07-16-08, 05:58 PM
I know that we're in the thick of things in '08, but I'm excited about the flexibility and options that we will have next year.

One comment I have is that Damon will not be moved back to CF on a full-time basis. I think he season so far has been enough to keep him around next year, same for Matsui. Matsui will stay over Damon because of the revenue he brings from Japan.

JeterRodriguezSheff
07-16-08, 09:25 PM
Chances are the payroll wont be substantially lower next year.

ajra21
07-18-08, 08:06 AM
Sign CC.
Do not sign Pettitte and Moose.
Sign Tex if the price is....acceptable.

This is going to sound crazy...

Sign Oliver Perez!

Pros:

LHP that absolutely dominates when he is on
Young
Relatively cost effective 4-5th starter that has Ace potential

Cons:

Wild
Not a big innings eater

is perez a free agent? if so, and the price is right, why not? i doubt the price will be right however.

i would bring back pettitte but not moose. i'd reather have CC because i dislike siging pitchers with problems such as sheets. tex would be good but if he ask for too many years, let him go to baltimore, they'll never contend ever.

wang+cano=future
10-02-08, 03:53 PM
Buster Olney is claiming that the Yanks payroll will be around $180 million this season ($29 million less).

b_joseph
10-02-08, 04:03 PM
Buster Olney is claiming that the Yanks payroll will be around $180 million this season ($29 million less).Hard to make a claim when nobody has been signed or came close to signing.
If I had to guess, I would say that the payroll will be the same next season and then drop off a bit in 2010 ( Damon and Matsui ).

THEBOSS84
10-02-08, 04:04 PM
Buster Olney is claiming that the Yanks payroll will be around $180 million this season ($29 million less).

I'll believe it when I see it (I did see this quote in his blog today).

yankeebot
12-02-08, 09:08 AM
BUMP

Does anyone know exactly where we are payroll-wise right now?

Yankees1962
12-02-08, 09:09 AM
BUMP

Does anyone know exactly where we are payroll-wise right now?
I thought it was around 140M right now.

Gusto
12-02-08, 09:40 AM
I thought it was around 140M right now.

If we went to war with what we have now:

Wang 4
Rivera 15
Marte 4
Posada 13.1
Swisher 5.3
Cano 6
ARod 32
Jeter 20
Damon 13
Nady 4
Matsui 13
Molina 2

That's 131.4M for 12 players

Add 6.5M to fill out 25-man roster with cost-controlled players (.5M x 13)

Add a few M for Wang and Nady raises

Total: About 141-142M

sugmasterflex
12-03-08, 12:45 AM
If we went to war with what we have now:

Wang 4
Rivera 15
Marte 4
Posada 13.1
Swisher 5.3
Cano 6
ARod 32
Jeter 20
Damon 13
Nady 4
Matsui 13
Molina 2

That's 131.4M for 12 players

Add 6.5M to fill out 25-man roster with cost-controlled players (.5M x 13)

Add a few M for Wang and Nady raises

Total: About 141-142M


I think we can afford both CC and Tex! :D

Gusto
12-03-08, 10:38 AM
I think we can afford both CC and Tex! :D

Sure ... If they pencil two of Hughes, Kennedy or Aceves into the rotation. :eek:

TheInfallibleOne
12-03-08, 10:41 AM
I think we can afford both CC and Tex! :D

maybe if we can get tex to agree to 9 / 175 and we flip the map upside down to convince CC that new york is actually the west coast... but we still have to figure in the cost of AJ or (god forbid) derek lowe.

rajah
12-03-08, 10:44 AM
Sure ... If they pencil two of Hughes, Kennedy or Aceves into the rotation. :eek:

If I could sign CC and Tex, I would scramble for 4 and 5 with these guys and low market signings in a heartbeat.

IMO, keeping Tex from the Sox should be the number one priority, signing a top rotation guy number two, and filling out the rotation number three.

Yankee Fan in Boston
12-03-08, 10:47 AM
If I could sign CC and Tex, I would scramble for 4 and 5 with these guys and low market signings in a heartbeat.

IMO, keeping Tex from the Sox should be the number one priority, signing a top rotation guy number two, and filling out the rotation number three.

I don't see how keeping Tex away from the Sox can be the #1 priority -- if we don't accomplish #2 we aren't going to win anyway

Gusto
12-03-08, 11:16 AM
If I could sign CC and Tex, I would scramble for 4 and 5 with these guys and low market signings in a heartbeat.

IMO, keeping Tex from the Sox should be the number one priority, signing a top rotation guy number two, and filling out the rotation number three.

If we can't get a dominate 2nd FA pitcher after CC, then I might join your thinking.

rajah
12-03-08, 04:37 PM
I don't see how keeping Tex away from the Sox can be the #1 priority -- if we don't accomplish #2 we aren't going to win anyway

IMHO, the Yankees will not beat the Sox for several years if the latter add Tex to their current lineup.

I would like to have both Tex and CC, but I think the Yanks can win with other pitching alternatives and without CC. I think they can win without Tex too as long as he does not go to Fenway.

My number one hope for the off season is to have Tex not go to Fenway. I assume the Y's will use their resources to get adequate starting pitching if CC refuses their money.

Yankee Tripper
12-03-08, 04:48 PM
IMHO, the Yankees will not beat the Sox for several years if the latter add Tex to their current lineup.

I'm sure there were more than few fans of other teams that felt that way back when NYY signed Giambi.

I'd worry more about our team than what other teams are doing and our top 3 priorities are:

#1 Starting Pitcher
#2 Starting Pitcher
#3 Starting Pitcher

4degrees
12-04-08, 09:19 AM
If we went to war with what we have now:

Wang 4
Rivera 15
Marte 4
Posada 13.1
Swisher 5.3
Cano 6
ARod 32
Jeter 20
Damon 13
Nady 4
Matsui 13
Molina 2

That's 131.4M for 12 players

Add 6.5M to fill out 25-man roster with cost-controlled players (.5M x 13)

Add a few M for Wang and Nady raises

Total: About 141-142M


Actually, if you want to accurately determine the payroll, you have to throw in Giambi's buyout (5M), Pavano's buyout (1.95M), Clemens deferred money (1M), and who knows what else (I think Shef's money got pushed out to 2010). There's probably a pretty good salary slot in there.

rajah
12-04-08, 10:47 AM
I'm sure there were more than few fans of other teams that felt that way back when NYY signed Giambi.

I'd worry more about our team than what other teams are doing and our top 3 priorities are:

#1 Starting Pitcher
#2 Starting Pitcher
#3 Starting Pitcher

1) Giambi was a steroid guy with little agility who could be projected to decline. Tex is a much, much better gamble for a long contract at his age.

2) You state "our" top priorities "are". Who is the first person plural? The Yankees or the group of posters in which you include yourself? If the former, how do you know? Or do you mean these are what the top priorities should be? If so, you are wrong, in my opinion. I.e. We differ and each have a right to our opinion.

3) One way the Red Sox were able to surpass the Yankees in the last few years was to be concerned about them. That was how they got Dice-K, while the Y's got Igawa. Any business needs to be concerned about its competition.

TheHugeUnit2
12-04-08, 10:50 AM
(I think Shef's money got pushed out to 2010).
The tigers are on the hook for that right?

Gusto
12-04-08, 11:52 AM
Actually, if you want to accurately determine the payroll, you have to throw in Giambi's buyout (5M), Pavano's buyout (1.95M), Clemens deferred money (1M), and who knows what else (I think Shef's money got pushed out to 2010). There's probably a pretty good salary slot in there.

One could also include prorated signing bonuses, the ML contracts of Igawa, Brackman, and Miranda, bonuses paid to international free agents. It simply depends on what you are trying to calculate. I'm not trying to calculate the entire salary portion of the Yankee's accounts payable obligations. I'm just trying to estimate how much they have to spend this offseason.

I'm guessing the Yankees have about 190M (give or take) to spend on the 25 players they will pencil into the 2009 opening day roster slots. I added the salaries of who I see currently occupying those slots. From all that, I see the Yankees having about 45M - 55M left to spend, depending on how well I guessed.

I consider this a cleaner estimate than saying 85M just came off the books, so that's what they have to spend, like many fans and media members seem to be doing.

Yankee Tripper
12-04-08, 12:00 PM
1) Giambi was a steroid guy with little agility who could be projected to decline. Tex is a much, much better gamble for a long contract at his age.
Tex isn't nearly worth the money or years. Just my opinion and we disagree. Unless the market drops appreciably I don't want him.



2) You state "our" top priorities "are". Who is the first person plural? The Yankees or the group of posters in which you include yourself? If the former, how do you know? Or do you mean these are what the top priorities should be? If so, you are wrong, in my opinion. I.e. We differ and each have a right to our opinion.


I meant the Yankees. I try to avoid "we", "our" etc, I'm just a fan not an employee.

And since the Yankees have 2 starters penciled in right now and one has innings limit and the other is coming off a year in which his season ended in June due to injury (al biet a freak one that shouldn't have lasting problems) I will maintain that filling 3 SP spots are priorites 1, 2 and 3, you are welcome to disagee. If we all agreed this board would be quite dull.


3) One way the Red Sox were able to surpass the Yankees in the last few years was to be concerned about them. That was how they got Dice-K, while the Y's got Igawa. Any business needs to be concerned about its competition.
Tex would help the Sox but not as much as you think IMO. If they get Tex the marginal increase in production of him over Lowell (I'm assuming that would be the chain reaction with Youk shifting accross the diamond) is somewhat small. So unless they can deal Lowell for a nice upgrade elsewhere I just don't think adding Tex makes them much better, they are already good as it is.

They got Dice-K by out bidding the next highest bidder (who was not the Yankees) by more than 30%.

primetime714
12-04-08, 01:05 PM
This was probably posted a while back but here was RAB's prediction for our payroll:

http://riveraveblues.com/2008/10/new-york-yankees-2009-off-season-structure-5446/

That was pre-Swisher deal and also had Marte at 6M instead of 4M. With that in mind subtract 2M for Marte another 2M for Betemit and add 5M for Swisher: ~143.5M

The goal seems to reduce payroll, so look for us to end up somewhere in the 190-200 range. So Gusto was right in that we have about 45-55M to spend.

If we structure the contract appropriately we should be able to sign both CC and Teixeira if we want to (unfortunately I don't think the team really wants to but that is neither here nor there).

CC- 20M (first year salary w/ an annual average of 23-25M)
Tex- 17M (first year salary w/ an annual average of 20M)
Pettitte- 12M (1-year deal)
=49M for a total of 192.5M.

We could call it quits there and hope that Aceves, Hughes, and Kennedy could hold down the 5th spot in the rotation. Or we could go out and sign someone on the cheap. Garland on a 3 year deal would probably be looking at about 8M in that first year (10M average). Penny could probably be had on a cheap 1-year deal. Then there are other cheap options like: Byrd, Colon, Mulder, Garcia.