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YanksFan1992
06-24-08, 11:50 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8276984/Dunn-doesn't-show-it-much,-but-he-loves-baseball-?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49




Yankees GM Brian Cashman seems likely to sign a contract extension, though perhaps not anytime soon. The Yankees have made it clear they want Cashman back, and owner Hank Steinbrenner supports the GM's emphasis on young pitching.

While Cashman would be a natural for possible openings with the Mariners, Phillies and Nationals — not to mention a potential coup for the Mets or Dodgers — he never has worked for any team but the Yankees.

Brick Tamland
06-24-08, 12:06 PM
I want Cashman back next year. I hope he signs.

Smartin681
06-24-08, 03:42 PM
Re-signing Cashman is a must do for the Yankees. He's rebuilt this farm system and we are just now starting to feel the effects of it.. We have a bright future because of Cash and his crew

Pinstripedbass
06-24-08, 05:26 PM
Good move.

Even though I think Cashman has done a so-so job keeping the team competitive while rebuilding, I like his vision for the farm system and having our pitching talent home-grown.

Let Cashman finish the job he started.

YankeePride1967
06-24-08, 05:29 PM
Wait, what? This MUST be a mistake. I thought Hank was going to drive him away! :P

njdhockey
06-24-08, 05:38 PM
Awesome news, I really like the job Cashman has done and was scared that he was going to move on.

Yankees13
06-24-08, 05:44 PM
Better the devil you know. I'll rest easier once he puts ink to paper.

nnysiny
06-24-08, 07:14 PM
please bring him back

NYYFAN
06-24-08, 07:36 PM
His teams have never missed the playoffs...period end of story...

hardrain
06-24-08, 07:58 PM
Good news!

NYYDragoon
06-24-08, 08:00 PM
This would absolutely be the best decision.

NYJets37
06-24-08, 08:00 PM
What does this mean?

If he's going to stay then what are they waiting for?

Yankees13
06-24-08, 08:21 PM
He has his hands full with this joke of a team.

Yankees47
06-24-08, 08:42 PM
He has his hands full with this joke of a team.

Yes with a team that HE created

JeterForPresident
06-24-08, 08:45 PM
Great news! I really hope Cash stays with the Yankees where he belongs.

Yankees13
06-24-08, 08:48 PM
Yes with a team that HE created
We can argue all day whether it's his fault the team is in this shape, but the bottom line is that all aspects of the team have to be vastly improved in order just to make it a playoff team, nevermind a championship contender. Good luck to him.

teknetic
06-24-08, 08:55 PM
Yes with a team that HE created

Yes, he fully designed an explosive offense knowing they'd be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of hitting w/ RISP. Also planned on Wanger getting hurt, Hughes and Kennedy sucking, etc.

E-Rod
06-24-08, 09:28 PM
Cashman can stay but he will need to rebuild the entire team from the scratch if fail this year again and never again sign players like Igawa or Hawkins.

LovelyLady114
06-24-08, 09:31 PM
Cashman can stay but he will need to rebuild the entire team from the scratch if fail this year again and never again sign players like Igawa or Hawkins.

co-sign!! i've been waiting for the rebirth of this team since the '04 collapse. i'd rather watch a losing team that gets better over time than to watch overpaid vets get trounced from the playoffs year after year.

JeterRodriguezSheff
06-24-08, 10:40 PM
im not sure if i like this as much as everybody else. Cashman is seriously overrated. There doesnt seem to be anybody better available though.

Yankees13
06-24-08, 10:43 PM
im not sure if i like this as much as everybody else. Cashman is seriously overrated. There doesnt seem to be anybody better available though.
In an ideal world, we could get Theo or Billy Beane, but that's not happening obviously, and there's no one else clearly better than Cashman.

Art Vanderlay
06-24-08, 10:44 PM
Wheter Cashman stays or goes one thing is certain, this organization must do a much better job of evaluating pitchers.

JeterRodriguezSheff
06-24-08, 10:45 PM
In an ideal world, we could get Theo or Billy Beane, but that's not happening obviously, and there's no one else clearly better than Cashman.

I agree, this sucks.

Yankees13
06-24-08, 10:45 PM
Wheter Cashman stays or goes one thing is certain, this organization must do a much better job of evaluating pitchers.
They are also going to have to find a way to fix this decrepit, aging offense.

KeithF40
06-25-08, 01:30 AM
It's hard to miss the playoffs when you have the largest payroll in baseball and get to beat up on TB and Balt 19 times a season each. Come on Cash is a hack, what has he done for this organization. Credit him with rebuilding a farm system where only one player has made any significant impact.

Let's not blame him for the RJ, Pavano, Wright, Contreras, Igawa, trading Lowell, signing Giambi to a ridic contract(I'll actually give him the benefit of the doubt on that one), Damon, Matsui. Overpaying Jeter.

The WS winning teams were already assembled when Cash took over, he did no build them, Joe coached them, Cash can not take credit for any of this.

Results are what counts, not having a bunch of young arms on the DL and when they are pitching stinking up the place, any idiot on this board could do the same job as him with a 200M+ payroll and no real rings on his fingers.

JeterRodriguezSheff
06-25-08, 01:58 AM
It's hard to miss the playoffs when you have the largest payroll in baseball and get to beat up on TB and Balt 19 times a season each. Come on Cash is a hack, what has he done for this organization. Credit him with rebuilding a farm system where only one player has made any significant impact.

Let's not blame him for the RJ, Pavano, Wright, Contreras, Igawa, trading Lowell, signing Giambi to a ridic contract(I'll actually give him the benefit of the doubt on that one), Damon, Matsui. Overpaying Jeter.

The WS winning teams were already assembled when Cash took over, he did no build them, Joe coached them, Cash can not take credit for any of this.

Results are what counts, not having a bunch of young arms on the DL and when they are pitching stinking up the place, any idiot on this board could do the same job as him with a 200M+ payroll and no real rings on his fingers.

I agree for the most part but I do think Damon Matsui and Giambi were all good deals at the time and in the case of Damon still is a good deal. Also you have to give time for players of the farm to contribute.

That being said Cashman is ridiculously overrated on this forum. He isnt a bad GM relative to the rest of them, but he isnt great either.

LuckyLopez
06-25-08, 02:08 AM
Yes, he fully designed an explosive offense knowing they'd be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of hitting w/ RISP. Also planned on Wanger getting hurt, Hughes and Kennedy sucking, etc.
With all due respect, almost every positive evaluation of Cashman starts with his focus on young players, specifically pitchers. So how does he not have to take the negative when those same young pitchers prove ineffective or are too undeveloped to step in for hurt or struggling players?

And I'm not offering a major criticism of him here. If you feel that the growing pains of the young guys on this season was an acceptable hit for the long term potential, that's fine. But that's a decision Cashman made and if someone objects to the impact that it had on the '08 Yankees than that criticism is fair. While I'm a fan of the youth movement and don't mind having a down season or two its not inherrently wrong for fans to be more or equally interested in 2008. So if Cashman counted on rookie and 2nd year pitchers in 2008 (which he did, not only to fill rotation spots at the start of the season but also to fill rotation and bullpen spots throught the season) then the impact their struggles have on the team is his to own as well as the success they may or may not bring.


I'm kind of indifferent to Cashman at this stage. There are things I like about him and things I don't. Many of his successes I think could have been done by anyone and many of his failures I think could have as well. I think he's got real flaws that need to be addressed by him or the Yankees but I also am not down on him as a total package. There are a number of GMs in baseball I'd rank above him but quality GMs don't tend to be unemployed. So I have no realy problem giving Cashman a few years to see his plans succeed or fail. If its true that he only truly took power in the last few years than letting what he seemingly set in motion play out seems fair and then you can evaluate him on the results. What he does as a number of these older players' contracts run out and these young players step up should make or break his longterm future with the club.

dougj1
06-25-08, 03:06 AM
On the day this flop of a GM re-signs, I hope all flags fly at half mast, and all Yankee fans wear black armbands in remembrance of a once great franchise turned into an also ran by this guy...I will be stocking up on tissues and will give them away at no charge to the grieving throngs.

rodney27nyg
06-25-08, 06:52 AM
On the day this flop of a GM re-signs, I hope all flags fly at half mast, and all Yankee fans wear black armbands in remembrance of a once great franchise turned into an also ran by this guy...I will be stocking up on tissues and will give them away at no charge to the grieving throngs.

Wow. I may grieve for the brutal inaccuracies conveyed in your post.

We haven't won the WS since 2000. Thats Six years before Cashman took over the reigns.

Toaderly
06-25-08, 06:58 AM
I'm not too sure that there is another GM out there that could do any better of a job than Cashmoney has done. Granted, he's made his share of mistakes, but overall he's done a good job.

mbn007
06-25-08, 07:19 AM
I'm not too sure that there is another GM out there that could do any better of a job than Cashmoney has done. Granted, he's made his share of mistakes, but overall he's done a good job.

This is the fairest evaluation on this thread. By a mile.

YanksFan1992
06-25-08, 11:31 AM
On the day this flop of a GM re-signs, I hope all flags fly at half mast, and all Yankee fans wear black armbands in remembrance of a once great franchise turned into an also ran by this guy...I will be stocking up on tissues and will give them away at no charge to the grieving throngs.

I would understand if someone didn't want Cashman back (I most certainly do though), but if you think that critically of him you should try looking at any of the other teams in the majors in the last 15 years to see how well he's done.

jeterlove
06-25-08, 11:34 AM
I would understand if someone didn't want Cashman back (I most certainly do though), but if you think that critically of him you should try looking at any of the other teams in the majors in the last 15 years to see how well he's done.

Do those other teams get the same budget to play with that Cashman does though?

He's an ok GM I guess, but I would like to see the team go in a new direction.

YanksFan1992
06-25-08, 11:46 AM
Do those other teams get the same budget to play with that Cashman does though?

He's an ok GM I guess, but I would like to see the team go in a new direction.

That's exactly why he's a great GM. For the last few years ownership wanted to continue to trade for the big names and take big money risks in free agency; however recently Cashman has curtailed. If Cashman wasn't here I am fairly certain Santana would be in pinstripes right now and Hughes, Cabrera and a few more prospects would be in Minnesota.

KeithF40
06-26-08, 12:31 AM
So we would have a sub 3 era guy instead of a bunch of guys on the DL and hitting under 250. Yeah good thing we didn't make that trade.

teknetic
06-26-08, 12:38 AM
Long post (no offense meant)

I'm not gonna kill Cashman for thinking Hughes and Kennedy might be solid or at least above average this year after what they did last year (Kennedy on a much smaller sample size)


On the day this flop of a GM re-signs, I hope all flags fly at half mast, and all Yankee fans wear black armbands in remembrance of a once great franchise turned into an also ran by this guy...I will be stocking up on tissues and will give them away at no charge to the grieving throngs.

I'll grieve for the keyboard that was just used to post this.

27IsNext
06-26-08, 01:15 AM
Is there anyone else with the vast amount of experience in dealing with the Steinbrenners that Cashman has gained over the years?

Hellsing
06-26-08, 01:21 AM
Cashman's success will be tied to Hughes.
In 3 years time, the Yankees will know if NOT trading Hughes to get Santana was the right move. You cannot evaluate that this season.

Cashman seems like a good GM, but there ARE better GM's on other teams. If I could not lure them away from their respective teams, I would resign Cashman.

LuckyLopez
06-26-08, 12:11 PM
I'm not gonna kill Cashman for thinking Hughes and Kennedy might be solid or at least above average this year after what they did last year (Kennedy on a much smaller sample size)
I wouldn't "kill" him either for it. But there were very clear risks in it that he either knowingly took on or was ignorant to. Kennedy did very little in MLB and could easily have failed (not to say he has, but that 19 innings of MLB ball and a season in the minors doesn't do much at all to assure even "solid" pitching for the bulk of the season). I really don't see how Kennedy's struggles could be a surprise to anyone. And while Hughes' success last season was a very good indicator that he could be counted on this season there's still a long list of 2nd year pitchers who have struggled as the league saw them more, they added pitches, or the workload added up.

I won't kill Cashman because I think it was an acceptable plan. But when he started the season with Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Hughes, and Kennedy with Joba in the near future the risks were clear to anyone who wanted to see them. Two older pitchers, one who was very questionable, and a group of young rookies/sophomores only one of whom had any sustained success in the majors. The chances of lots of struggles and a poor staff were very good and that hurting the Yankees was very real. If the fans and Cashman feel that was ok because the longterm development of those pitchers and the Yanks is more important? Good. I agree. But for those fans who disagree and want to win in '08 more than want to build a team that might compete in later years? They have every right to criticize the direction Cashman went in and him relying on unproven arms to put up solid or above average numbers.

I'm long winded (as you can surely tell) but the point is, I absolutely think Cashman should have taken into consideration the very real possability of Kennedy and Hughes "sucking." If he didn't then I think that is a real mark against him and an overrating of the talents. Especially with Kennedy given how truly small that sample was.

yankees629
06-26-08, 01:42 PM
Cashman is the most overrated gm in sports. He has made some of the worst free agent signing and trades in history (pavano, Wright, Weever, Brown ect.) I have never seen a worse evalutater of pitching. Now he is supposed to be this great genious who is emphasising young pitching? Its a joke. He has done nothing to make this franchise better.

yankeebot
06-26-08, 01:45 PM
Cashman is the most overrated gm in sports. He has made some of the worst free agent signing and trades in history (pavano, Wright, Weever, Brown ect.) I have never seen a worse evalutater of pitching. Now he is supposed to be this great genious who is emphasising young pitching? Its a joke. He has done nothing to make this franchise better.
Welcome to the forum. :)

yankees629
06-26-08, 01:46 PM
Cashman has a history of overating pitching. Hes a terrible pitching evaluater.

Bern baby Bern!
06-26-08, 01:50 PM
Cashman is the most overrated gm in sports. He has made some of the worst free agent signing and trades in history (pavano, Wright, Weever, Brown ect.) I have never seen a worse evalutater of pitching. Now he is supposed to be this great genious who is emphasising young pitching? Its a joke. He has done nothing to make this franchise better.
welcome to the site man... and right off the bat you bash the cash?! I agree on some extent that he has made some very bad moves but he has also improved our farm system over the years which I need to give him credit for. With the yankees tendency to spend spend spend, we should have the best club out there and yes he needs to be smarter with certain moves (Igawa, giambi, brown..)

Yankee Fan in Boston
06-26-08, 01:56 PM
I wouldn't "kill" him either for it. But there were very clear risks in it that he either knowingly took on or was ignorant to. Kennedy did very little in MLB and could easily have failed (not to say he has, but that 19 innings of MLB ball and a season in the minors doesn't do much at all to assure even "solid" pitching for the bulk of the season). I really don't see how Kennedy's struggles could be a surprise to anyone. And while Hughes' success last season was a very good indicator that he could be counted on this season there's still a long list of 2nd year pitchers who have struggled as the league saw them more, they added pitches, or the workload added up.

I won't kill Cashman because I think it was an acceptable plan. But when he started the season with Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Hughes, and Kennedy with Joba in the near future the risks were clear to anyone who wanted to see them. Two older pitchers, one who was very questionable, and a group of young rookies/sophomores only one of whom had any sustained success in the majors. The chances of lots of struggles and a poor staff were very good and that hurting the Yankees was very real. If the fans and Cashman feel that was ok because the longterm development of those pitchers and the Yanks is more important? Good. I agree. But for those fans who disagree and want to win in '08 more than want to build a team that might compete in later years? They have every right to criticize the direction Cashman went in and him relying on unproven arms to put up solid or above average numbers.

I'm long winded (as you can surely tell) but the point is, I absolutely think Cashman should have taken into consideration the very real possability of Kennedy and Hughes "sucking." If he didn't then I think that is a real mark against him and an overrating of the talents. Especially with Kennedy given how truly small that sample was.

That's really at the crux of this, isn't it? Perhaps the organization (i.e., Steinbrenners) were OK with the risk because they saw the value of developing he minor league pitchers this year, even if it meant a subpar (by Yankee standards) season. I agree regarding the struggles of Kennedy and Hughes, but philosophically they may have been willing to bite the bullet and throw guys like Horne, or Rasner, or Karstens and see what they could do rather than go to a retread like a Colon (of course, 2 of those 3 have gotten hurt, in addition to Wang). Also, they knew they were going to bring Joba into the rotation at midseason, so the plan did allow for either one of the young guys or Moose to falter and still have a replacement.

R.V.47
06-26-08, 01:59 PM
That's really at the crux of this, isn't it? Perhaps the organization (i.e., Steinbrenners) were OK with the risk because they saw the value of developing he minor league pitchers this year, even if it meant a subpar (by Yankee standards) season. I agree regarding the struggles of Kennedy and Hughes, but philosophically they may have been willing to bite the bullet and throw guys like Horne, or Rasner, or Karstens and see what they could do rather than go to a retread like a Colon (of course, 2 of those 3 have gotten hurt, in addition to Wang). Also, they knew they were going to bring Joba into the rotation at midseason, so the plan did allow for either one of the young guys or Moose to falter and still have a replacement.

It was a good plan bu the reality is that they didnt develop those 2, they rushed them to the bigs to fill holes that easily couldve been filled by stop gaps like Rasner. Thats why Cashman deserves a lot of criticism. He stresses patience but he didnt practice what he preached.

Brick Tamland
06-26-08, 02:03 PM
Cashman has a history of overating pitching. Hes a terrible pitching evaluater.

And who is it you'd like to replace Cash with? What is his history of overrating pitching?

Yankee Fan in Boston
06-26-08, 02:04 PM
It was a good plan bu the reality is that they didnt develop those 2, they rushed them to the bigs to fill holes that easily couldve been filled by stop gaps like Rasner. Thats why Cashman deserves a lot of criticism. He stresses patience but he didnt practice what he preached.

I think you can say that about Kennedy, but I am not so sure about Hughes. I know he came up a few months early last year, but the guy was lights out in his second start (and then, of course, got hurt). He progressed his way through the minors pretty well and looked like he would really be ready to contribute this year.

It's not just those two though, either. It's Joba, and could have been Horne in the 2nd half (although his injury may squelch that). In addition, there are a lot of young bullpen guys (Ollie, Veras, and maybe Cox and Robertson later) who could gain some valuable seasoning this year as well.

yankees629
06-26-08, 02:11 PM
And who is it you'd like to replace Cash with? What is his history of overrating pitching?

let see pavano 10 mil per year if that isnt over rateing i dont know what is. Lily for weaver? He really got that 1 right.
brown
wright
Randyj
The list goes on.

Brick Tamland
06-26-08, 02:13 PM
let see pavano 10 mil per year if that isnt over rateing i dont know what is. Lily for weaver? He really got that 1 right.
brown
wright
Randyj
The list goes on.

Uh pretty sure some of those cats were not his call. And it's not like he himself overrated them. They were established vets in this league and turns out they couldn't pitch in NY.

Again, who do you want to replace him with?

Bern baby Bern!
06-26-08, 02:14 PM
let see pavano 10 mil per year if that isnt over rateing i dont know what is. Lily for weaver? He really got that 1 right.
brown
wright
Randyj
The list goes on.
Well Randy and Brown are proven pitchers, I just think he signed them 10 yrs too late because I have no idea what right they have being on this team at close to 40 yrs of age.
pavano is similar to vasquez move - they had good year but risk coming from national league and he probably should have done a better job with both so I can see frustration there. Wright and Weaver I was cursing from the day cash made that move because I knew it would be total disaster and I believed Lilly, a lefty, had what it took to be a 4th starter at least on the team.

bostonyankeefan
06-26-08, 02:15 PM
Cashman has been trying to re-build with youth and remain competitive at the same time because ownership and the fans demand both. It is very difficult to pull off both. He has made some mistakes (Iagawa), but he has also been unlucky (Pavano was highly sought after by many other teams, including the Sox). He is committed to building from within and using the financial power of the Yankees to sign good draft picks and foreign free agents. In the long run, the team will be very strong as a result.

yankees629
06-26-08, 02:17 PM
welcome to the site man... and right off the bat you bash the cash?! I agree on some extent that he has made some very bad moves but he has also improved our farm system over the years which I need to give him credit for. With the yankees tendency to spend spend spend, we should have the best club out there and yes he needs to be smarter with certain moves (Igawa, giambi, brown..)

On paper we improved the system which is good, let see if these guys pan out. But since he has been gm the team hasnt improved. With all the resources the yankees have he couldnt put together a winner.

yankees629
06-26-08, 02:22 PM
Cashman has been trying to re-build with youth and remain competitive at the same time because ownership and the fans demand both. It is very difficult to pull off both. He has made some mistakes (Iagawa), but he has also been unlucky (Pavano was highly sought after by many other teams, including the Sox).

He made more then 1 mistake yarnall for lowell wright igawa giambi, He wasnt unlucky any one could have realized he wasnt that good, he had 1 good year!!! Just because other teams want him doesnt mean we have to go after him. He had 1 good year happend to be his walk year.

Yankee Fan in Boston
06-26-08, 02:22 PM
On paper we improved the system which is good, let see if these guys pan out. But since he has been gm the team hasnt improved. With all the resources the yankees have he couldnt put together a winner.

I think some of our fans need to be transported back to the 1980s

yankees629
06-26-08, 02:25 PM
Well Randy and Brown are proven pitchers,.

randyj maybe proven but brown was injured every year, why would it change with the yankees.

yankees629
06-26-08, 02:31 PM
Uh pretty sure some of those cats were not his call. And it's not like he himself overrated them. They were established vets in this league and turns out they couldn't pitch in NY.

Again, who do you want to replace him with?

He pulled the trigger on the deals i dont care whos fault they are he is the gm. Couldnt pitch in NY they couldnt pitch period. Weaver can pitch, Igawa can pitch? Wright, Pavano, Brown? they are all basically out of the league.

Brick Tamland
06-26-08, 02:56 PM
He pulled the trigger on the deals i dont care whos fault they are he is the gm. Couldnt pitch in NY they couldnt pitch period. Weaver can pitch, Igawa can pitch? Wright, Pavano, Brown? they are all basically out of the league.

I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes, clearly he has made his share. But he's done some good work building up the farm. The Yankees currently have the fifth best farm talent in the majors per BP and Cashman has finally put the team in a position to spend their considerable resources wisely rather than just signing big name FAs.

27IsNext
06-26-08, 02:59 PM
Cashman is the most overrated gm in sports. He has made some of the worst free agent signing and trades in history (pavano, Wright, Weever, Brown ect.) I have never seen a worse evalutater of pitching. Now he is supposed to be this great genious who is emphasising young pitching? Its a joke. He has done nothing to make this franchise better.

Wright was a Tampa faction signing, back when the team was run by a baseball committee, where Cashman didn't have sole authority. Did you honestly thing the Weaver or Brown trades were bad when they were made? Hindsight is 20/20.

Pavano was a terrible signing. One good full season in a contract year with an injury history. No sugar-coating that one.

It's too early to tell on Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain.

sweet_lou_14
06-26-08, 03:03 PM
Especially as we transition into the Hank & Hal era, Brian Cashman provides critical continuity. He's "our" guy. Nobody's going to agree with every decision he makes, but I for one agree with the general direction he's going in. I'd be very happy to see him come back.

sweet_lou_14
06-26-08, 03:09 PM
Wright was a Tampa faction signing, back when the team was run by a baseball committee, where Cashman didn't have sole authority. Did you honestly thing the Weaver or Brown trades were bad when they were made? Hindsight is 20/20.

Pavano was a terrible signing. One good full season in a contract year with an injury history. No sugar-coating that one.

It's too early to tell on Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain.

Pavano was a bad signing, but the Yankees were NOT the only team that wanted him badly. My advice is, every time you get upset about Pavano, just remember these two words: Matt Clement. Those were the two big FA pitchers at the time, there were two teams gunning for them both, everybody knew that one team would get one and the other team would get the other, and neither one panned out.

What's worse: getting only 5 wins for your money, or getting a Game 1 playoff disaster that led directly to a first-round sweep, and THEN getting only 5 more wins?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pavanca01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clemema01.shtml

yankees629
06-26-08, 03:10 PM
Wright was a Tampa faction signing, back when the team was run by a baseball committee, where Cashman didn't have sole authority. Did you honestly thing the Weaver or Brown trades were bad when they were made? Hindsight is 20/20.

Pavano was a terrible signing. One good full season in a contract year with an injury history. No sugar-coating that one.

It's too early to tell on Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain.
The weaver deal i didnt think it was such a bad move so ill give you that 1. But the brown move i never approved of, he had a history of getting injured. They didnt give up much for him except for paying him and paying the dodgers 2.6 mil.

I i fully understand he wasnt the only one making decisions but he was involved in them. I also dont know if anyone is better out there but ill take a chance on almost anyone over what i think is a terrible gm.

27IsNext
06-26-08, 03:18 PM
The weaver deal i didnt think it was such a bad move so ill give you that 1. But the brown move i never approved of, he had a history of getting injured. They didnt give up much for him except for paying him and paying the dodgers 2.6 mil.

I i fully understand he wasnt the only one making decisions but he was involved in them. I also dont know if anyone is better out there but ill take a chance on almost anyone over what i think is a terrible gm.

We traded Jeff Weaver and Yhency Brazoban for Kevin Brown. Not exactly a devastating blunder since he only had two years left (I think) on the contract at time of the trade. The worst thing you can say about trading for Brown is that his contract prevented us from signing Beltran, although in hindsight that may have been wise. (Plus, Randy Johnson also prevented it, and that move was George's call.)

George was basically the GM prior to Cashman gaining full authority in 2006. He had guys like Bill Emslie and Billy Connors telling him to sign Tony Womack and Jaret Wright (which he listened to) and then he personally demanded the Yankees trade for Johnson. Try building the team you want in just three years with those decisions handicapping you during your three-year run of having autonomy. Even Hank hinted at these things when he said, "There have been a lot of mistakes the past six or seven years, which myself and Brian had little to do with." (Paraphrasing.)

I think it's too early to judge Cashman, and he should be given a second round to keep building the team the way HE wants to.

Bern baby Bern!
06-26-08, 03:19 PM
Wright was a Tampa faction signing, back when the team was run by a baseball committee, where Cashman didn't have sole authority. Did you honestly thing the Weaver or Brown trades were bad when they were made? Hindsight is 20/20.

Pavano was a terrible signing. One good full season in a contract year with an injury history. No sugar-coating that one.

It's too early to tell on Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain.
Actually When the deal was done for weaver I was so mad, maybe because I didnt know much about weaver and I liked lilly but I was not happy with that trade and I guess I was right on that one.
With brown,I said right away that it would be the worst move the yankees make and it ended up being exactly that.. maybe not the worst but def one of the worst..
pavano i was ok with, i was willing to give him a shot (probably not for the amount of the years they gave him though) and I liked vasquez on the expos..
bottomline, I do not like a lot of moves cashman has made but i do like the job he has done in the last yr or two building up this farm, but with the money we have there is no reason why our bench consists of guys like betemit, moller, shelley and so on and our bullpen has been miserable for a few years now. He has got to do a much better job and stop signing people to ridiculously crazy contracts!

YankeePride1967
06-26-08, 03:24 PM
It's funny people are still knocking Cashman for the signing of Womack when he wasn't even aware of it until the ink on the contract was dry.

yankees629
06-26-08, 03:24 PM
Actually When the deal was done for weaver I was so mad, maybe because I didnt know much about weaver and I liked lilly but I was not happy with that trade and I guess I was right on that one.
With brown,I said right away that it would be the worst move the yankees make and it ended up being exactly that.. maybe not the worst but def one of the worst..
pavano i was ok with, i was willing to give him a shot (probably not for the amount of the years they gave him though) and I liked vasquez on the expos..
bottomline, I do not like a lot of moves cashman has made but i do like the job he has done in the last yr or two building up this farm, but with the money we have there is no reason why our bench consists of guys like betemit, moller, shelley and so on and our bullpen has been miserable for a few years now. He has got to do a much better job and stop signing people to ridiculously crazy contracts!

Good point, i dont know whos fault it is but they yankees are terrible at the details of the team meaning, bench bullpen role players ect. The have made the big moves and have the best team on paper most years but the always neglect the small things like a good back up catcher, or speed off the bench like in our winning days (bush and raines) or a lefty out of the pen. I think that should be his biggest flaw, and those mistakes dont come from the stienbrenners.

teknetic
06-26-08, 03:25 PM
The weaver deal i didnt think it was such a bad move so ill give you that 1. But the brown move i never approved of, he had a history of getting injured. They didnt give up much for him except for paying him and paying the dodgers 2.6 mil.

I i fully understand he wasnt the only one making decisions but he was involved in them. I also dont know if anyone is better out there but ill take a chance on almost anyone over what i think is a terrible gm.

Thankfully for all our sakes you're not the one that's gonna be taking chances. Bashing the current GM while using faulty logic (and mentioning absolutely nothing that hasn't been said already) is always a nice way to introduce yourself into a new forum.

YankeePride1967
06-26-08, 03:27 PM
There is no question Brian has made his mistakes and has his weaknesses. But you can't ignore the strengths. It was his idea to concentrate on building the farm once he got power away from the lackeys in Tampa.

Bern baby Bern!
06-26-08, 03:32 PM
Good point, i dont know whos fault it is but they yankees are terrible at the details of the team meaning, bench bullpen role players ect. The have made the big moves and have the best team on paper most years but the always neglect the small things like a good back up catcher, or speed off the bench like in our winning days (bush and raines) or a lefty out of the pen. I think that should be his biggest flaw, and those mistakes dont come from the stienbrenners.
That is why I love guys like sojo, eckstein, cairo.. these guys are role players, provide some speed off bench, play with their hearts, play almost every position on the field, excellent small-ball players (bunt, steal, sacrifice...) We usually always have best team on paper, what other team has a matsui, giambi, cano, posada type of guy batting 8th?! but you need those role players and you need a team that can mesh well, otherwise your just the knicks or the mets.
One thing I also love now is that we kind of stayed away from the long-ball type of players - one thing that drove me crazy in the past decade. I think this off-season is going to be huge with the amount of payroll we are getting rid of but you need to do something productive and not give away all that money to one big guy.

Yankees47
06-26-08, 03:33 PM
I have wavered on this subject alot over the past few seasons. First I liked Cash, than over the last few years I didnt like a lot of his decisions but the more I think about it, who would take over for Cash that would do a better job?? I dont see a clear successor to the GM chair like I saw a clear successor to Joe Torres job. Cash's philosophy has worked really well. Santana has been far from Lights out, and hopefully Hughes gives us another young starter to put alongside Joba for the future. So I am happy to see that he is going to return, sure he has made some bad deals but what GM hasn't? Cashman is still a young man at only 40 years old. He could be the GM for another 20 years if he does a nice job since he is reportedly close with the Steinbrenner family.

yankees629
06-26-08, 03:33 PM
There is no question Brian has made his mistakes and has his weaknesses. But you can't ignore the strengths. It was his idea to concentrate on building the farm once he got power away from the lackeys in Tampa.

I do like that he is building the farm system. I should have givin him credit for that. Truth of the matter is i dont know why it wasnt done earlier. Considering there financial strength they could have been building it from a while ago, its not like they traded away any great prospects over the past few years.

YankeePride1967
06-26-08, 04:13 PM
I do like that he is building the farm system. I should have givin him credit for that. Truth of the matter is i dont know why it wasnt done earlier. Considering there financial strength they could have been building it from a while ago, its not like they traded away any great prospects over the past few years.

The reason as to why it wasn't done sooner is likely due to the fact that Tampa had the reins of power and chose to go the FA route.

yankees629
06-26-08, 04:33 PM
The reason as to why it wasn't done sooner is likely due to the fact that Tampa had the reins of power and chose to go the FA route.

Thats doesnt prevent them from drafting good players in most situations. For the past 5-7 years aside from wang and cano has there been any real good players from our farm system?

Hellsing
06-26-08, 04:37 PM
Thats doesnt prevent them from drafting good players in most situations. For the past 5-7 years aside from wang and cano has there been any real good players from our farm system?

Huh?

Excellent:

Joba.

Good:

Veras
Cabrera
Edwar

Traded away before they were Yankees...

Dioner Navarro...
Nick Johnson...If he wasn't so oft injured

That's what I can think of in 10 seconds and I know I am missing quite a few.

yankees629
06-26-08, 04:40 PM
Huh?

Excellent:

Joba.

Good:

Veras
Cabrera
Edwar

Traded away before they were Yankees...

Dioner Navarro...
Nick Johnson...If he wasn't so oft injured

That's what I can think of in 10 seconds and I know I am missing quite a few.
Was talking about pre-building the farm system. Veras cabrera and edwar are recent. What i was saying is all those years 2000-2006 very few impact players traded or kept.

yankeesnumber1
06-26-08, 04:48 PM
I'm not too sure that there is another GM out there that could do any better of a job than Cashmoney has done. Granted, he's made his share of mistakes, but overall he's done a good job.

Perfectly well put

27IsNext
06-26-08, 04:59 PM
Good point, i dont know whos fault it is but they yankees are terrible at the details of the team meaning, bench bullpen role players ect. The have made the big moves and have the best team on paper most years but the always neglect the small things like a good back up catcher, or speed off the bench like in our winning days (bush and raines) or a lefty out of the pen. I think that should be his biggest flaw, and those mistakes dont come from the stienbrenners.

Can you point to a specific team in the majors that has your idea of a strong bench? If a guy can supposedly "hit enough" to be a good bat off of our bench, chances are, he's probably good enough to start for another team, and will end up signing with that other team.

Our bench right now is Molina, Moeller, Betemit, Gonzalez and Christian. Molina and Moeller are both good backup catchers. Betemit has defensive flexibility and some pop to his bat. Gonzalez has defensive prowess up the middle. Christian can play any outfield position and can steal a base. Where's the lack of "role players" in our current bench?

As for our pen, here's the thing. The players that are usually good to great coming out of the bullpen consistently are the guys that end up being closers. Consequently, they're either not going to want to pitch for you if you already have a closer, or will demand a lot of money and years. You then have the players that are good some years and not so good other years, which is the majority of relievers in baseball. You want to shell out multi-year contracts for those guys?

The best bet is to fill out your bullpen with hard throwers from the farm system. There aren't many Brian Fuenteses or Damaso Martes available, and to acquire one via trade means sending a top prospect in return.

yankees629
06-26-08, 05:10 PM
Can you point to a specific team in the majors that has your idea of a strong bench? If a guy can supposedly "hit enough" to be a good bat off of our bench, chances are, he's probably good enough to start for another team, and will end up signing with that other team.

Our bench right now is Molina, Moeller, Betemit, Gonzalez and Christian. Molina and Moeller are both good backup catchers. Betemit has defensive flexibility and some pop to his bat. Gonzalez has defensive prowess up the middle. Christian can play any outfield position and can steal a base. Where's the lack of "role players" in our current bench?

As for our pen, here's the thing. The players that are usually good to great coming out of the bullpen consistently are the guys that end up being closers. Consequently, they're either not going to want to pitch for you if you already have a closer, or will demand a lot of money and years. You then have the players that are good some years and not so good other years, which is the majority of relievers in baseball. You want to shell out multi-year contracts for those guys?

The best bet is to fill out your bullpen with hard throwers from the farm system. There aren't many Brian Fuenteses or Damaso Martes available, and to acquire one via trade means sending a top prospect in return.

Ok In terms of bench i dont need guys who can hit enough. I like molina alot hes a good backup catcher hes the first decent one we got in 5 years or so. Until christian we had no speed off the bench he was called up like 2 days ago. So lets relax onthe guy for a minute.

And in bullpen 1st off i was talking about a quality left hander in the pen not Billy traber. And if you look back to when the yankees were winning they had nelson and stanton inthe bullpen. Who if i remeber correctly were both traded for.

When you are a championship calliber team you sometimes need to go out and fill holes. The yanks have over looksed some holes over the years. again i come back to attenton to detail

27IsNext
06-26-08, 05:18 PM
Ok In terms of bench i dont need guys who can hit enough. I like molina alot hes a good backup catcher hes the first decent one we got in 5 years or so. Until christian we had no speed off the bench he was called up like 2 days ago. So lets relax onthe guy for a minute.

And in bullpen 1st off i was talking about a quality left hander in the pen not Billy traber. And if you look back to when the yankees were winning they had nelson and stanton inthe bullpen. Who if i remeber correctly were both traded for.

When you are a championship calliber team you sometimes need to go out and fill holes. The yanks have over looksed some holes over the years. again i come back to attenton to detail

To start the year, we had Ensberg and Duncan on the roster. Ensburg's career stats are .263/.362/.468 with a 113 OPS+. In limited at-bats last season, Duncan had a .554 slugging percentage and a 128 OPS+. Both are righties on a team with mostly left-handed batters. Was seeing if either one could offer the team anything really a bad idea?

Who outside of Marte and Fuentes are "quality left-handers"? And would you be willing to sacrifice Alan Horne for either one? I wouldn't.

dont_ya_know24
06-26-08, 05:30 PM
To start the year, we had Ensberg and Duncan on the roster. Ensburg's career stats are .263/.362/.468 with a 113 OPS+. In limited at-bats last season, Duncan had a .554 slugging percentage and a 128 OPS+. Both are righties on a team with mostly left-handed batters. Was seeing if either one could offer the team anything really a bad idea?

Who outside of Marte and Fuentes are "quality left-handers"? And would you be willing to sacrifice Alan Horne for either one? I wouldn't.

I would, because when they leave through free agency, we get two first round picks.

teknetic
06-26-08, 07:05 PM
Was talking about pre-building the farm system. Veras cabrera and edwar are recent. What i was saying is all those years 2000-2006 very few impact players traded or kept.

Our farm didn't start to flourish until after Cashman gained control of the team and assigned guys like Oppenheimer and Newman to draft and scout for talent. Then in an shocking turn of events, what was once a barren farm system turned into one of the best in baseball. Funn how that works.

yankees629
06-26-08, 07:25 PM
Our farm didn't start to flourish until after Cashman gained control of the team and assigned guys like Oppenheimer and Newman to draft and scout for talent. Then in an shocking turn of events, what was once a barren farm system turned into one of the best in baseball. Funn how that works.

Agreed. Its funny how they couldnt do that before, but im not suprized they were very mismanaged.

Tabata
06-27-08, 09:48 AM
I'll be very pleased when he signs. So much for big bad Hank running him out of town.

dougj1
06-27-08, 05:25 PM
Hopefully, when Cashman signs another contract, there will be a day of national mourning. For $200 million plus, the guy has a pitching staff consisting of 3 starters and 2 relievers. Whoopee!...I guess if he had a payroll of 1 Billion dollars, Yanks might have 5 SPs and a pen......You gotta spill all that Cashman Cool Aid since it's killing your objectivity and put your complaints to better use by trying to get this so called GM FIRED!

The Q Bomb
06-27-08, 05:47 PM
Why would Cashman want to come back to a team that plays like this? It's either a reminder of what a bad job he did or a evidence of how players with no heart can ruin the best of fosters.