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Bleacher_Creature
06-02-08, 10:40 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_9449525

I tried putting this in HOT STOVE, but I guess it's closed. In any case, not much info regarding players the Yankees may offer, but I guess we can put together a senerio or 2 :D ....

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 10:42 AM
I don't think we need Fuentes unless the price is right.

PinstripePride
06-02-08, 10:44 AM
Fuentes is currently the closer.

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 10:46 AM
Fuentes is currently the closer.

A closer on a lousy team who makes multi-mil is always tradable.

NYKforever
06-02-08, 10:48 AM
What would they ask for? I doubt they will just hand him to us. A package centered around McCutchen? :P

yankeebot
06-02-08, 10:48 AM
A closer on a lousy team who makes multi-mil is always tradable.
But do you think the closer designation would increase the cost to get him?

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 10:50 AM
But do you think the closer designation would increase the cost to get him?

For sure, that's why I originally said we don't need him unless the price is right. It probably won't be right.

ShaneTravis
06-02-08, 11:02 AM
Rockies are 17 games under .500 and 12 games out. The team is dead in the water. They are at 68 million for payroll. Fuentes makes 5 million this year. Let's do them a favor and pluck a couple of vets making the big money on that team.

Atkins,Fuentes,Cook...they have talent on that team and they are going no where. I would not give up too much for Fuentes but he would be ideal for us.

2.78 Era this year and a career .214 .312 .326 .639 is what lefties hit off him.

JavyVazquezIsSick
06-02-08, 11:40 AM
The Yankees don't need BP help. They just need a little more time.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 11:46 AM
Who would you guys rather acquire Marte or Fuentes?

Yankees47
06-02-08, 11:49 AM
Daniel McClutchen and Brett Gardner would be their orginal asking price in my opinion, If I'm Cashman I attempt to work it down to McClutchen and Colin Curtis

ShaneTravis
06-02-08, 11:56 AM
Daniel McClutchen and Brett Gardner would be their orginal asking price in my opinion, If I'm Cashman I attempt to work it down to McClutchen and Colin Curtis

For a half year rental? The guy is going to leave and close for someone.

In no way is Brian worth Mc and Brett.

DiMaggio5CF
06-02-08, 12:00 PM
Melky, Kennedy, and Tabata for Fuentes. Throw in Horne if it seals the deal.

Yankee Tripper
06-02-08, 12:00 PM
He's a rent a player as his contract is up so the return won't be huge for COL. I'd expect something similar to the package the Rangers got for Gagne last year which was: Murphy, Gabard & ? if I rememeber right. Fuentes is clearly a type-B FA and quite possibly even type-A so the Rockies won't just give him away becuase those picks are valuable.

The things going for Fuentes: left handed, sucess as closer (3 time all-star), sucess as setup (last year after injury/ineffectiveness cost him closer job), not a LOOGY - can get both left/right out.

As I've said before often the worst deals are in season deals for relief pitching. Down the road the acquiring team often looks back and says "what where we thinging" and the team that sent out the RP often says "thank you very much". That said, if we can land Fuentes for 2 or 3 B-prospects, I'm all for it.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 12:05 PM
Melky, Kennedy, and Tabata for Fuentes. Throw in Horne if it seals the deal.



HAHAHAHAHAH how about we jus throw in Joe DiMaggio as well, JC why not throw in A-Rod??? Haha

Yankees47
06-02-08, 12:08 PM
He's a rent a player as his contract is up so the return won't be huge for COL. I'd expect something similar to the package the Rangers got for Gagne last year which was: Murphy, Gabard & ? if I rememeber right. Fuentes is clearly a type-B FA and quite possibly even type-A so the Rockies won't just give him away becuase those picks are valuable.

The things going for Fuentes: left handed, sucess as closer (3 time all-star), sucess as setup (last year after injury/ineffectiveness cost him closer job), not a LOOGY - can get both left/right out.

As I've said before often the worst deals are in season deals for relief pitching. Down the road the acquiring team often looks back and says "what where we thinging" and the team that sent out the RP often says "thank you very much". That said, if we can land Fuentes for 2 or 3 B-prospects, I'm all for it.

I agree, but if your Cashman here is how you must think about this. Does this move take our bullpen to the next level? Does this make us a Championship caliber bullpen? If the answer is yes for yes 2 or at most 3 B level prospects you pull the trigger

sjb23
06-02-08, 12:32 PM
Who would you guys rather acquire Marte or Fuentes?

They're both lefties and can both be excellent setup guys. They're about the same age (Marte is six months older) and both have similar career stats. All things being equal, I like the fact that Marte has AL experience, and would choose him over Fuentes for that very reason.

BillBuckner
06-02-08, 12:39 PM
The Yankees don't need BP help. They just need a little more time.

Time's a plus, but what actually do need BP help right now.

JavyVazquezIsSick
06-02-08, 01:12 PM
Time's a plus, but what actually do need BP help right now.

I don't agree. Unless you are trading for a dominant guy, its pointless. Not to mention the cost of prospects. I'm very confident in Edwar and Patterson. I also think Farnsworth and Britton will be above average. Cox and Robertson will be up in 2-3 weeks.

BRNXBMRS
06-02-08, 01:15 PM
Melky, Kennedy, and Tabata for Fuentes. Throw in Horne if it seals the deal.

Cashman would be stupid not to do this. Another NL pitcher coming to the AL, when will the Yanks learn?

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 01:15 PM
I don't agree. Unless you are trading for a dominant guy, its pointless. Not to mention the cost of prospects. I'm very confident in Edwar and Patterson. I also think Farnsworth and Britton will be above average. Cox and Robertson will be up in 2-3 weeks.

Robertson's walk total is not going to translate well to the MLB.

27IsNext
06-02-08, 01:15 PM
I think we should leave Robertson in AAA the rest of the season so he can get his control down. I'd have no problem acquiring Fuentes for a REASONABLE price.

primetime714
06-02-08, 01:38 PM
His FA status and the compensation picks are what will make this difficult.

I'd gladly part with a package featuring Marquez or McCutchen (preferrably Marquez). However I don't know if that'll be enough.

Marquez, Britton, and one of the Duncans or Miranda

That's probably not enough, but that's what I'd offer.

YankeesAce4Life
06-02-08, 01:40 PM
Melky, Kennedy, and Tabata for Fuentes. Throw in Horne if it seals the deal.

Please throw A-Rod, Jeter, and Matsui in and we got a deal. GET IT DONE CASH!

primetime714
06-02-08, 01:44 PM
Please throw A-Rod, Jeter, and Matsui in and we got a deal. GET IT DONE CASH!

I think he was probably joking with that offer to see if anyone would take it seriously. At least I hope so.

mgpenguin
06-02-08, 02:06 PM
I don't agree. Unless you are trading for a dominant guy, its pointless. Not to mention the cost of prospects. I'm very confident in Edwar and Patterson. I also think Farnsworth and Britton will be above average. Cox and Robertson will be up in 2-3 weeks. I hope you'll forgive those of us who aren't comfortable going forward with a pair of relievers who have a combined career total of 38 innings. The samples you're basing these off are ridiculously small, and in addition, you're being totally reliant on mere hope that Farnsworth will continue to be decent and that another two rookies will be successful in the bullpen. To be quite honest, I think you're severely overrating how good the bullpen actually is, and how good the minor leaguers will be in a months' time.

Just to look over the current bullpen and how I feel about it:
Mo- $$$
Farnsworth- never know what you're getting
Hawkins- not good
Ohlendorf- inconsistent
Ramirez- looks good, but hasn't pitched enough to know one way or the other
Veras- has been getting the job done, but we don't know what will come from him in the future
Britton- may or may not be the answer; Girardi is reluctant to use him
Patterson- we have no idea if he'll be a decent ML reliever

So basically the count is: One proven commodity, and the rest are question marks. I have no idea how much it will cost to get Fuentes, but there is no way in hell I don't take a serious look into what it will take to get him. The guy has been great against both LHB and RHB in his career and would be a very good bridge to Rivera.

Kulish29
06-02-08, 02:08 PM
This is speculation from a Denver newspaper. Nothing more.

shadyridr
06-02-08, 02:19 PM
2 B pitching prospects for Fuentes should get it done.

YASS
06-02-08, 02:25 PM
2 B pitching prospects for Fuentes should get it done.
Name some names. Who do you consider to be "B" prospects?

effdamets
06-02-08, 02:34 PM
Name some names. Who do you consider to be "B" prospects?
The ones just below the "A" prospects, perhaps? :D :lol:

smckdwn989
06-02-08, 02:42 PM
they can take hawkins back

Yankee Tripper
06-02-08, 02:50 PM
Name some names. Who do you consider to be "B" prospects?Marquez, McCuthen, Kontos, Ohlendorf, Britton, Wright. I don't know but two of those should qualify as B prospects, though not sure if they would be enough.

As I said Fuentes at worst will be a type-B FA and quite probably Type-A if he closes all year for COL. so you have to offer them something better than what they are liekly to receive in the draft as compensation for him walking and I doubt that two of the names I mentioned gets it done.

YASS
06-02-08, 02:52 PM
The ones just below the "A" prospects, perhaps? :D :lol:
In John Sickel's prospect ratings, a "B" prospect is a very valuable thing, since almost no one gets an "A". Others use the "B" rating to mean borderline prospects.

Which does the poster mean? Colorado will demand a high price for Fuentes.

effdamets
06-02-08, 02:59 PM
In John Sickel's prospect ratings, a "B" prospect is a very valuable thing, since almost no one gets an "A". Others use the "B" rating to mean borderline prospects.

Which does the poster mean? Colorado will demand a high price for Fuentes.
I was kidding.

But really, I think that some people believe that the "B" prospects are buried somewhere deep in the low-levels of the minors.

Yankee Tripper
06-02-08, 03:02 PM
In John Sickel's prospect ratings, a "B" prospect is a very valuable thing, since almost no one gets an "A". Others use the "B" rating to mean borderline prospects.

Which does the poster mean? Colorado will demand a high price for Fuentes.

I think the casual fan looks at A prospects as the supposed blue chip can't misprospect and the B prosect as a guy who may or may not be pretty good in MLB but still has some holes in their game.

As for what COL will want. I don't know but I think they will be looking for 2 prospect that they think are better than what they would get by having 2 additional picks somewhere between 16 - 60 in next year's draft or two players that are much closer to MLB ready than waht they would draft with the comepnsation picks.

YASS
06-02-08, 03:04 PM
I was kidding.

But really, I think that some people believe that the "B" prospects are buried somewhere deep in the low-levels of the minors.
I knew you were kidding, but it was a serious question, so I continued to elaborate seriously after I finished chuckling. :)

It seems to me some think Fuentes is going to be easy to get for a low price, and I don't believe that for a second.

effdamets
06-02-08, 03:09 PM
I knew you were kidding, but it was a serious question, so I continued to elaborate seriously after I finished chuckling. :)

It seems to me some think Fuentes is going to be easy to get for a low price, and I don't believe that for a second.
I'm with ya....

flymick24
06-02-08, 03:16 PM
Name some names. Who do you consider to be "B" prospects?

Britton, Chris
Betemit, Wilson
Battle, Tim
Broussard, Ben
Baisely, Brian

we could probably get more value from broussard and baisely because they're what we can double-b prospects

NelsonMuntz
06-02-08, 03:19 PM
Cashman would be stupid not to do this. Another NL pitcher coming to the AL, when will the Yanks learn?
Not that I am advocating trading for Fuentes but I would not be as concerned about the NL to AL transition when looking at relief pitchers (particularly closers) since relievers in the NL generally do not face pitchers. They're facing pinch hitters at that stage of the game.

sjb23
06-02-08, 03:20 PM
It seems to me some think Fuentes is going to be easy to get for a low price, and I don't believe that for a second.

I think Damaso Marte will cost less and he would be just as effective, plus he has AL experience, which I think should be a consideration.

The Pirates should be looking for starting pitching prospects, and should be willing to give up a 33yr old reliever to get two -- maybe Marquez and someone comparable, like Jeff Karstens or Daryl Rasner. These guys could be #3 and/or #4 starters for the Pirates.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 03:25 PM
Britton, Chris
Betemit, Wilson
Battle, Tim
Broussard, Ben
Baisely, Brian

we could probably get more value from broussard and baisely because they're what we can double-b prospects

Ben Broussard is not a prospect. In fact none of these players are prospects

Yankees47
06-02-08, 03:29 PM
Ben Broussard is not a prospect. In fact none of these players are prospects

Im not counting Major league players here such as Joba, Hughes, Kennedy

A Level Prospects: Austin Jackson, Dellin Bentances, Jose Tabata, Jesus Monterro

B Level Prospects Alan Horne, Brett Gardner, Jeff Marquez, Steven White, Chase Wright..

Vets such as Betemit, Britton and Brussard arent viewed as prospects

The Dynasty
06-02-08, 03:32 PM
If I recall correctly, Fuentes will be a free agent at the end of the year. Right now there's a chance he may hit the free agent market as an A-compensation reliever.

This is something to consider.

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 03:33 PM
If I recall correctly, Fuentes will be a free agent at the end of the year. Right now there's a chance he may hit the free agent market as an A-compensation reliever.

This is something to consider.

Yes, but this is something the Rox will consider when trading him too.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 03:35 PM
Yes, but this is something the Rox will consider when trading him too.


Good point Hank, When losing an A level type FA that allows you to acquire the first round pick of the team that signs the A type free agent

Yankees47
06-02-08, 03:36 PM
Yes, but this is something the Rox will consider when trading him too.

So if your the Rox GM you have to ask yourself, the players that im acquiring are they equal or better than a 1st round draft pick? Thats why you dont see players in their contract years dealt more often

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 03:37 PM
Good point Hank, When losing an A level type FA that allows you to acquire the first round pick of the team that signs the A type free agent

As well as a supplemental round pick.

The Dynasty
06-02-08, 03:37 PM
Yes, but this is something the Rox will consider when trading him too.

Yeah, that was actually my point. Should've been a little more clear :D

Yankees47
06-02-08, 03:39 PM
As well as a supplemental round pick.

So 2 1st round picks, your right I dont see the Rockies moving Fuentes for 2 B level guys, which in my opinion should rule us out because I dont want to see the Yanks move an Austin Jackson or Jose Tabata to get a lefty for three months, who by the way has never pitched in NY or in the AL east

YASS
06-02-08, 03:42 PM
Britton, Chris
Betemit, Wilson
Battle, Tim
Broussard, Ben
Baisely, Brian

we could probably get more value from broussard and baisely because they're what we can double-b prospects
I think Fuentes can be had for a couple of "M" prospects.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 03:43 PM
Like I said before I would be interested in Fuentes or Marte at a reasonable price, but I dont think Pittsburgh or Colorado would meet our request. I dont think the bullpen is a problem at the moment. There are some young pitchers that are in the majors and others that are on their way that I want to see what they can do before doing anything to rash. The Bench needs some fixing in the meantime and maybe another starting pitcher

MassNYYfan
06-02-08, 03:45 PM
Britton, Chris
Betemit, Wilson
Battle, Tim
Broussard, Ben
Baisely, Brian

we could probably get more value from broussard and baisely because they're what we can double-b prospects

:roflmao:

Well done, sir.

dont_ya_know24
06-02-08, 03:54 PM
if scott linebrink can be a type A free agent, so can fuentes.

i think i might offer mccuttchen/ marquez and kontos. or something like that.

shadyridr
06-02-08, 03:55 PM
Name some names. Who do you consider to be "B" prospects?

Horne, McCutchen, Marquez, Gardner (I know hes not a pitcher)

Yankees47
06-02-08, 04:35 PM
if scott linebrink can be a type A free agent, so can fuentes.

i think i might offer mccuttchen/ marquez and kontos. or something like that.

That is a fair offer

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 04:39 PM
Look what the Sox gave up for Gagne last year. We'd have to give up more than that.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 04:44 PM
Look what the Sox gave up for Gagne last year. We'd have to give up more than that.

Why would we have to give up more than that? At the deadline last year Gagne was pitching very well with Texas and most baseball insiders thought that he was healthy and before his injury Gagne was a dominant closer. Fuentes has never approached the dominance of Gagne at any point of his career. I believe we could land Fuentes for around the same price

YASS
06-02-08, 04:46 PM
Look what the Sox gave up for Gagne last year. We'd have to give up more than that.
I still cringe when I think of that deal.

Kason Gabbard gave the Rangers a big handful of good starts (although he's not pitching so well right now), David Murphy is a legitimate candidate for ROY with his performance thus far, and Engel Beltre is holding his own in high A ball as an 18-year-old.

The Eric Gagne trade will go down in Sox history as among the worst deals ever.

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 04:46 PM
Why would we have to give up more than that? At the deadline last year Gagne was pitching very well with Texas and most baseball insiders thought that he was healthy and before his injury Gagne was a dominant closer. Fuentes has never approached the dominance of Gagne at any point of his career. I believe we could land Fuentes for around the same price

Lefty, better injury history, more of a sure thing to a type-A FA than Gagne was last year (even though Theo was sure Gagne would be an A)

YASS
06-02-08, 04:47 PM
Why would we have to give up more than that? At the deadline last year Gagne was pitching very well with Texas and most baseball insiders thought that he was healthy and before his injury Gagne was a dominant closer. Fuentes has never approached the dominance of Gagne at any point of his career. I believe we could land Fuentes for around the same price
Gagne's performance fell off the table well before the deal happened. The writing was on the wall for him, but nobody bothered to read it.

But even when he was getting outs at the start of the season, he wasn't the same pitcher as the dominant pre-injury 'roided-up Gagne.

Yankee Tripper
06-02-08, 04:48 PM
Why would we have to give up more than that? At the deadline last year Gagne was pitching very well with Texas and most baseball insiders thought that he was healthy and before his injury Gagne was a dominant closer. Fuentes has never approached the dominance of Gagne at any point of his career. I believe we could land Fuentes for around the same price
While Fuentes peak was never close to Gagne. I would say Fuentes 2008 ~ Gangne 2007.

I agree the asking price should be about the same as what Texas got for Gange which was MLB ready 4th starter, 4th OF who has played well above expectations and good prospect that I don't know much about.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 04:52 PM
Gagne's performance fell off the table well before the deal happened. The writing was on the wall for him, but nobody bothered to read it.

But even when he was getting outs at the start of the season, he wasn't the same pitcher as the dominant pre-injury 'roided-up Gagne.

Yes thats true but every team in the AL wanted Gagne including the Yanks as a set up man, (Pre Joba) Indians and the Tigers also were looking at him to come in and close. To be honest I was surprised that team up north ended up with him

Kulish29
06-02-08, 04:53 PM
Why make a trade for something they dont need? They can do it for free when Cox, Robertson and Melancon are ready.

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 04:54 PM
There is no point for the Rockies to trade Fuentes yet. They can get much more at the deadline. There is no reason they should keep him past the deadline if they don't intend on re-signing him.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 04:56 PM
There is no point for the Rockies to trade Fuentes yet. They can get much more at the deadline. There is no reason they should keep him past the deadline if they don't intend on re-signing him.

I agree Hank, But at the same time I dont see the Yankees having a pressing need for Fuentes at this moment either. I'm not a big fan of making major deals in May or June, I prefer to wait until July when you have had the time to evaluate your own system and see if theres not an answer lying there instead via the trade market

R.V.47
06-02-08, 04:56 PM
Why make a trade for something they dont need? They can do it for free when Cox, Robertson and Melancon are ready.

Fuentes is a lefty, you can still use one of those guys or Veras or Farnsworth or whoever in the 8th inning with Fuentes like the way we used Stanton and Nelson.

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 04:57 PM
I agree Hank, But at the same time I dont see the Yankees having a pressing need for Fuentes at this moment either. I'm not a big fan of making major deals in May or June, I prefer to wait until July when you have had the time to evaluate your own system and see if theres not an answer lying there instead via the trade market

Hank ay?

I agree.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 04:59 PM
Fuentes is a lefty, you can still use one of those guys or Veras or Farnsworth or whoever in the 8th inning with Fuentes like the way we used Stanton and Nelson.

He would be a nice addition to our club but I dont think that we need him today. Here is another thought on why Cox and Meleancon will not come up right now. Not only do they need more innings under their belt but maybe Cashman wants to bring these guys up in August or September so come playoff time nobody has much tape on them or has seen them that much. Look at Joba last year, dont get me wrong Joba is Joba but at the same time here comes this kid out of nowhere throwing triple digits with a nasty slide piece. Its tough to prepare for on short notice thats all im saying

mgpenguin
06-02-08, 04:59 PM
Why make a trade for something they dont need? They can do it for free when Cox, Robertson and Melancon are ready. You're making the assumption that they will both be ready for MLB relief work, and that they will be able to do so adequately. All have great potential, but may not be ready yet; Fuentes is ready, and is very good.

R.V.47
06-02-08, 05:03 PM
He would be a nice addition to our club but I dont think that we need him today. Here is another thought on why Cox and Meleancon will not come up right now. Not only do they need more innings under their belt but maybe Cashman wants to bring these guys up in August or September so come playoff time nobody has much tape on them or has seen them that much. Look at Joba last year, dont get me wrong Joba is Joba but at the same time here comes this kid out of nowhere throwing triple digits with a nasty slide piece. Its tough to prepare for on short notice thats all im saying

Agreed, I wouldnt be surprised to see both of those guys in Septmeber but Fuentes IMO fills two holes. Hes a lefty which we need and not a terrible LOOGY type either that can only get out lefties. Also Id like to see another veteran in the pen. BTW I would DFA Hawkins to make room for Fuentes on the roster.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 05:09 PM
Here is the question that you have to ask yourself before acquiring any left handed reliever whether it be Marte or Fuentes...Bottom of the 8th in Fenway Yanks lead 3-2. Runners on first and second with one out and Papi and Manny are due up. Do you trust Fuentes to get both Papi and Manny out? Because the price they will demand means that Fuentes better be able to get out Right handers as well as Lefties

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 05:10 PM
Here is the question that you have to ask yourself before acquiring any left handed reliever whether it be Marte or Fuentes...Bottom of the 8th in Fenway Yanks lead 3-2. Runners on first and second with one out and Papi and Manny are due up. Do you trust Fuentes to get both Papi and Manny out? Because the price they will demand means that Fuentes better be able to get out Right handers as well as Lefties

I'd opt for the other option. Bring Mo in for the good ol' 5 out save.

R.V.47
06-02-08, 05:10 PM
Here is the question that you have to ask yourself before acquiring any left handed reliever whether it be Marte or Fuentes...Bottom of the 8th in Fenway Yanks lead 3-2. Runners on first and second with one out and Papi and Manny are due up. Do you trust Fuentes to get both Papi and Manny out? Because the price they will demand means that Fuentes better be able to get out Right handers as well as Lefties

I dont know if I trust him but Im willing to find out because I dont trust Farnsworth, Hawkins, Veras or even Edwar as good as hes been in that situation.

aeromac76
06-02-08, 05:10 PM
Here is the question that you have to ask yourself before acquiring any left handed reliever whether it be Marte or Fuentes...Bottom of the 8th in Fenway Yanks lead 3-2. Runners on first and second with one out and Papi and Manny are due up. Do you trust Fuentes to get both Papi and Manny out? Because the price they will demand means that Fuentes better be able to get out Right handers as well as Lefties

If he's had the rest, Mo, for all of it..
Yankees win, 3-2..

:)

Yankees47
06-02-08, 05:12 PM
Ok its the 7th inning same situation, my point is you cant use Mo until the 9th. And Hank dont go Billy Martin 1977 ALCS vs the Royals on me with Sparky Lyle going 5 innings

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 05:14 PM
Ok its the 7th inning same situation, my point is you cant use Mo until the 9th. And Hank dont go Billy Martin 1977 ALCS vs the Royals on me with Sparky Lyle going 5 innings

My age doesn't permit me to use that game as an example.

mgpenguin
06-02-08, 05:15 PM
Ok its the 7th inning same situation, my point is you cant use Mo until the 9th. And Hank dont go Billy Martin 1977 ALCS vs the Royals on me with Sparky Lyle going 5 innings
Yes. They are both very good against both lefties and righties. Fuentes especially so.

Yankee Tripper
06-02-08, 05:16 PM
Here is the question that you have to ask yourself before acquiring any left handed reliever whether it be Marte or Fuentes...Bottom of the 8th in Fenway Yanks lead 3-2. Runners on first and second with one out and Papi and Manny are due up. Do you trust Fuentes to get both Papi and Manny out? Because the price they will demand means that Fuentes better be able to get out Right handers as well as LeftiesGiven Fuentes track record I'd have no problem bringing him in that situation.

Lefties hit .215 against him and righties .230 for his career. He's a 3 time all-star closer who had back to back 30 save seasons in 05 & 06.

As for the 5 out Mo save? Playoffs yes, regular season, no. Unless its the final weekend and may be the difference between playoff yes and no.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 05:16 PM
My age doesn't permit me to use that game as an example.

Neither does my age, Im only 23 but Billy Martin Brought in Sparky Lyle the Yankee closer in the 4th inning to shut down the royals in the 77 ALCS. Ended up working out

Yankees47
06-02-08, 05:17 PM
Yes. They are both very good against both lefties and righties. Fuentes especially so.

Good call, your consisent with your answers.

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 05:18 PM
Neither does my age, Im only 23 but Billy Martin Brought in Sparky Lyle the Yankee closer in the 4th inning to shut down the royals in the 77 ALCS. Ended up working out

I'm also 23 and I had no idea about that, but that's pretty cool to be honest. Then pitch counts were invented....

LovelyLady114
06-02-08, 05:18 PM
Who exactly are we giving up in return??

Yankees47
06-02-08, 05:19 PM
YANKEES
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Giambi 1B
Cano 2B
Moeller C
Cabrera CF
Pettitte LHP

Lineup tonight compliments of Peter Abraham

Kulish29
06-02-08, 05:20 PM
You're making the assumption that they will both be ready for MLB relief work, and that they will be able to do so adequately. All have great potential, but may not be ready yet; Fuentes is ready, and is very good.

You're making the assumption that A) The Yankees need a lefty in the pen, which they dont and B) Fuentes will be just as good in the AL as he was in the NL.

This is all speculation anyway. The Denver Post saw that the Yankees had a pen spot open because of Joba, went on prior interest from the Yankees and printed some garbage about it. There's been nothing from the Yankees side at all.

Yankees47
06-02-08, 05:22 PM
You're making the assumption that A) The Yankees need a lefty in the pen, which they dont and B) Fuentes will be just as good in the AL as he was in the NL.

This is all speculation anyway. The Denver Post saw that the Yankees had a pen spot open because of Joba, went on prior interest from the Yankees and printed some garbage about it. There's been nothing from the Yankees side at all.

First off all, I dont think the yankees NEED a lefty in the pen but it would def help out a lot in the long run. Yes there were no Yankee sources confirming interest in Fuentes but his name has come up a few times over the past few years

Kulish29
06-02-08, 05:22 PM
Fuentes is a lefty, you can still use one of those guys or Veras or Farnsworth or whoever in the 8th inning with Fuentes like the way we used Stanton and Nelson.

But then you're just making a trade for a lefty because of his handedness. If you have RHP in the pen who can get out LHB, there's no need for a LHP. Look at the Angels.

Kulish29
06-02-08, 05:26 PM
First off all, I dont think the yankees NEED a lefty in the pen but it would def help out a lot in the long run.

My response wasnt to you. It was to penguin. But anyway, a good lefty in the pen is a luxury. If you have righties who can get out lefties, there's no need.


Yes there were no Yankee sources confirming interest in Fuentes but his name has come up a few times over the past few years

Which is exactly what I'm saying. It's all speculation. The Yankees arent 'eyeing' him at all. It's a newspaper reporting false interest based upon prior interest. It was probably something somebody from the Rockies FO told the Denver Post to print to drum up interest from other teams.

THEBOSS84
06-02-08, 05:26 PM
But then you're just making a trade for a lefty because of his handedness. If you have RHP in the pen who can get out LHB, there's no need for a LHP. Look at the Angels.

Agreed 100%. I don't care if he throws with his left leg, so long as he get's LHB out.

Yankee Tripper
06-02-08, 05:32 PM
But then you're just making a trade for a lefty because of his handedness. If you have RHP in the pen who can get out LHB, there's no need for a LHP. Look at the Angels.While not directed at me I'll answer, Fuentes is not a LOOGY. I would not trade for a LOOGY. It is good to have a lefty in the pen but I do agree it is not a necessity. I would trade for Fuentes because he is both left handed and a very good reliable relief pitcher who gets both lefties & righties out. Lefties who can not get righties out do not post 30 save seasons generally speaking. His results against Boston were however quite mixed last year. He was good in the regular season against them and got hit hard in the world series. Though I wouldn't really judge him by either very small sample.

False1
06-02-08, 06:24 PM
I agree. I hate the concept of a LOOGY, particularly if you have a RH reliever that gets out the general LH batting population. However, all things being equal it is beneficial to have a left handed releiver, because while a RH may have good numbers across a large population of LH batters there may be specific matchups where you want a LHP that can get a LH batter out. It's not worth a roster spot for that one high leverage at bat, especially when you have folks that can get lefties out generally, but if you can acquire a stud LH relief pitcher without overpaying it's definitely worth getting a look at what they'd want in return.

Later in the year, the Rox might take an Abreu-like package just to be rid of the financial responsibility. Would love to see that happen.

27IsNext
06-02-08, 06:38 PM
Why make a trade for something they dont need? They can do it for free when Cox, Robertson and Melancon are ready.

Of those three, we'd be lucky to get Cox in September. Robertson needs to hone his control and Melancon won't be ready this year at all.

Yankee Tripper
06-02-08, 06:51 PM
Later in the year, the Rox might take an Abreu-like package just to be rid of the financial responsibility. Would love to see that happen.Won't happen. Fuentes isn't that expensive that they'd need a salary dump and as has been mentioned a few times, unless the pieces coming back are better than or at least equal to what the Rox would get as compenstaion in the draft they have little to no incentive to deal him.

shadyridr
06-02-08, 11:11 PM
Why make a trade for something they dont need? They can do it for free when Cox, Robertson and Melancon are ready.

What makes you people think a bunch of kids can come up and pitch well right away? Have you learned nothing from this year? Of course they need bullpen help. Every team does. Fuentes is a good relief pitcher and has been for a few years now. Im not saying to trade the farm for him but a few B level prospects would be fine with me. I think thats enough, others do not, I guess we'll see.

And its a bit of revisionist history saying the Gagne trade was a disaster for the Sox. When the trade was done I remember this board was up in arms about how the Rangers accepted much less than we offered. I remember people saying how the Rangers got B level prospects in Gabbard & Murphy and the only good prospect was in single A. Now all of a sudden it was a disaster cuz Gagne pitched bad and Murphy is a ROY candidate.

Yankee Fan in Boston
06-02-08, 11:21 PM
And its a bit of revisionist history saying the Gagne trade was a disaster for the Sox. When the trade was done I remember this board was up in arms about how the Rangers accepted much less than we offered. I remember people saying how the Rangers got B level prospects in Gabbard & Murphy and the only good prospect was in single A. Now all of a sudden it was a disaster cuz Gagne pitched bad and Murphy is a ROY candidate.

And Cashman gets killed because he doesn't make that deal. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

JavyVazquezIsSick
06-03-08, 09:54 AM
OK, I'm in, but I doubt he'll come cheap.

fellows
06-03-08, 03:23 PM
Yankees have to overpay for this guy or some other capable pitcher. What deal gets him ASAP?

MTYankee23
06-03-08, 03:35 PM
Yankees have to overpay for this guy or some other capable pitcher. What deal gets him ASAP?

A bad one? Anytime you treat a deal like it needs to be done ASAP, you're going to come off on the short end.

If the names Horne, Garcia, Betances, Jackson, or McAllister are involved. It's a bad deal. I'd even be reluctant to trade Tabata without knowing whether the starters can get us enough leads to protect.

fellows
06-03-08, 04:27 PM
A bad one? Anytime you treat a deal like it needs to be done ASAP, you're going to come off on the short end.

If the names Horne, Garcia, Betances, Jackson, or McAllister are involved. It's a bad deal. I'd even be reluctant to trade Tabata without knowing whether the starters can get us enough leads to protect.

The Yankees put themselves in a position to be taken advantage of by having no quality replacement for Joba once he was moved. They have to overpay if they want to contend this year. No way on Jackson, but I would be willing to trade from the farm's pitching depth to help this season.

Yankee Tripper
06-03-08, 05:01 PM
The Yankees put themselves in a position to be taken advantage of by having no quality replacement for Joba once he was moved. They have to overpay if they want to contend this year. No way on Jackson, but I would be willing to trade from the farm's pitching depth to help this season.
I kept hearing Steve Phillips balther on about that last night but out of curiosity what top 8th inning guy should the Yankees have gone after?

Gagne? He wanted to close anyway it wasn't happening.
Percival? Injured but the yanks did, they offerend more $ for 1 year but Percy opted for 2 from TB
Riske? Injured may have gotten 3 years from MIL
Mayhay - more of a LOOGY than 8th inning guy
Linebrink? sure he's having a good year but did any fans here really want to match that 4 year / 19M contract?
Dotel - been there done that - injury waiting to happen.

Who else was available either as FA or guy who was traded that the yankees should have gone after?

MTYankee23
06-03-08, 05:03 PM
The Yankees put themselves in a position to be taken advantage of by having no quality replacement for Joba once he was moved. They have to overpay if they want to contend this year. No way on Jackson, but I would be willing to trade from the farm's pitching depth to help this season.

I wouldn't trade any of the names mentioned. Not for Brian Fuentes, even if it means we won't be able to compete (and likely Fuentes isn't going to make the difference between contend/non-contend.). Regardless of the position they've put themselves in, and despite the fact that I disagree with your statement that we don't have A quality replacment for Joba (which implies the job should just go to one guy, as opposed to the pitcher who has been pitching the best at any given time).

fellows
06-03-08, 05:21 PM
I wouldn't trade any of the names mentioned. Not for Brian Fuentes, even if it means we won't be able to compete (and likely Fuentes isn't going to make the difference between contend/non-contend.). Regardless of the position they've put themselves in, and despite the fact that I disagree with your statement that we don't have A quality replacment for Joba (which implies the job should just go to one guy, as opposed to the pitcher who has been pitching the best at any given time).

I might agree with you if Girardi showed he was willing to match up in the 8th, but so far he's using Farnsworth in the same role Joba had. The other night Ramirez was doing well and could have pitched to Morneu leading off the 8th with a 2 run lead. Instead Farnsworth comes in to start the inning against a very good lefty hitter who takes him deep(lefties own Kyle this year). If Girardi is going to use Farnswoth as a one inning pitcher in big spots this team is in trouble.

MTYankee23
06-03-08, 06:14 PM
I might agree with you if Girardi showed he was willing to match up in the 8th, but so far he's using Farnsworth in the same role Joba had. The other night Ramirez was doing well and could have pitched to Morneu leading off the 8th with a 2 run lead. Instead Farnsworth comes in to start the inning against a very good lefty hitter who takes him deep(lefties own Kyle this year). If Girardi is going to use Farnswoth as a one inning pitcher in big spots this team is in trouble.

That should be a discussion that Cashman, Girardi and Eiland need to have, and quickly. At this point I'm hoping that they were rewarding Farnsworth's stuff and decent start to the season by giving him the first crack. Now I hope they start giving Edwar the big spots.

Casius
06-03-08, 07:13 PM
Of those three, we'd be lucky to get Cox in September. Robertson needs to hone his control and Melancon won't be ready this year at all.
That's a pretty pessimistic prognosis. I know a lot of people have gotten ahead of themselves on Cox/Melancon, but there's still a good chance we'll see both in the majors this year. They haven't both been aggressively promoted so that maybe Cox becomes a September call-up.

Pinstripe Pride23
06-03-08, 07:13 PM
The Yanks love trading for those National League relievers. Add a run and a half minimum to Fuentes ERA if he has to face the major league teams in the AL.

Yankeefan3783
06-03-08, 09:35 PM
I would have rather had the Yankees keep Joba in the bullpen (at least this season) and tried to trade for a starting pitcher. I think a good starter is easier to find then a good reliever.

Fuentes is a possibility though.

bmxstreetrider86
06-03-08, 09:39 PM
I would have rather had the Yankees keep Joba in the bullpen (at least this season) and tried to trade for a starting pitcher. I think a good starter is easier to find then a good reliever.

Fuentes is a possibility though.


really, considering most bullpens have at least 2 pretty good relievers (SU and CL) and most teams only have 1 really good starter, id say its fairly obvious that good starters are harder to find than good relievers

Prison Mike
06-03-08, 09:43 PM
I would have rather had the Yankees keep Joba in the bullpen (at least this season) and tried to trade for a starting pitcher. I think a good starter is easier to find then a good reliever.

Fuentes is a possibility though.

What good starter do you propose we get, and at what cost? A great starter is twice as hard to find, and twice as costly.

Yankeefan3783
06-03-08, 09:46 PM
really, considering most bullpens have at least 2 pretty good relievers (SU and CL) and most teams only have 1 really good starter, id say its fairly obvious that good starters are harder to find than good relievers

Yea that's a good point, but since the Yankees had two great relievers, I figured it would be easier to get a decent starter (Arroyo for example). Hopefully Joba is as dominant a starter as he has been a reliever, but even then that still leaves the Yankees with one reliever we all can trust.

Yankeefan3783
06-03-08, 09:48 PM
What good starter do you propose we get, and at what cost? A great starter is twice as hard to find, and twice as costly.

True. I really don't know. The first name that comes to mind is Bronson Arroyo, but being it's the Yankees, I'm sure the Reds will ask for the entire minor league system, and of course Joba and Cano.

R.V.47
06-03-08, 09:51 PM
After watching Veras Edwar and Hawkins tonight, Farnsworth last night I think if Fuentes is available the yankees really have no choice if they are serious about being competitive this year and are serious about Joba in the rotation.

diehardyankeefan
06-03-08, 10:05 PM
After watching Veras Edwar and Hawkins tonight, Farnsworth last night I think if Fuentes is available the yankees really have no choice if they are serious about being competitive this year and are serious about Joba in the rotation.
Agreed

fellows
06-03-08, 10:12 PM
True. I really don't know. The first name that comes to mind is Bronson Arroyo, but being it's the Yankees, I'm sure the Reds will ask for the entire minor league system, and of course Joba and Cano.

Arroyo's 1.68 WHIP and bad contract(2more yeas 12.5 mil per) would fit in pefectly with this pathetic rotation. He hasn't been good since 2006. What prospects can we give up for this salary dump?

Yankeefan3783
06-03-08, 10:23 PM
Arroyo's 1.68 WHIP and bad contract(2more yeas 12.5 mil per) would fit in pefectly with this pathetic rotation. He hasn't been good since 2006. What prospects can we give up for this salary dump?

I still think Arroyo can pitch, although that is a lot of money to take back, even if the Reds didn't ask for any major prospects.

IMissBillyM
06-03-08, 10:31 PM
The best pitcher to replace Joba in the 8th..is Joba.

fellows
06-03-08, 10:46 PM
I still think Arroyo can pitch, although that is a lot of money to take back, even if the Reds didn't ask for any major prospects.

He allows more baserunners per inning than Farnsworth. Gas on a fire.

NelsonMuntz
06-04-08, 11:24 AM
The Yanks love trading for those National League relievers. Add a run and a half minimum to Fuentes ERA if he has to face the major league teams in the AL.
The transition from NL to AL is not as dramatic for relief pitchers since they usually are facing pinch hitters rather than the pitcher in the #9 spot.

hongchihkuo
06-04-08, 11:29 AM
The Royals released Chin-hui Tsao yesterday. He had been on the DL with AAA Omaha. He's a former Rockie and Dodger. I think Cashman should look into signing him to a minor league contract and see if he can rehab and make it back to the majors. When healthy, Tsao has a plus fastball and slider, perfect for an 8th inning role.

Hellsing
06-04-08, 01:04 PM
Fuentes puts up nice numbers, but the Yankees are merely looking to tread water until Cox is ready. I KNOW that he is prospect, but his numbers are amazing and his minor league numbers compare favorably to Huston Street. Street is superior to Fuentes. I also believe Edwar has been very good thus far and we will not know what he can be until he logs another 20+ innings in the majors this year. If his ERA is @ or below 2.5, he is your guy. Combined with Cox, Veras, and Mo you have a very solid bullpen.

While I like Fuentes, I do believe Cox and Edwar will prove they can be the cornerstones for the bullpen this year and in the future.

diehardyankeefan
06-04-08, 01:59 PM
Fuentes puts up nice numbers, but the Yankees are merely looking to tread water until Cox is ready. I KNOW that he is prospect, but his numbers are amazing and his minor league numbers compare favorably to Huston Street. Street is superior to Fuentes. I also believe Edwar has been very good thus far and we will not know what he can be until he logs another 20+ innings in the majors this year. If his ERA is @ or below 2.5, he is your guy. Combined with Cox, Veras, and Mo you have a very solid bullpen.

While I like Fuentes, I do believe Cox and Edwar will prove they can be the cornerstones for the bullpen this year and in the future.


Yeah but, the three pitchers you named: Cox, Veras, Edwar, none of them have pitched a full season in the majors yet. A veteran reliever will need to be in the mix I believe which I think needs to be looked from other teams.

Hellsing
06-04-08, 02:05 PM
Yeah but, the three pitchers you named: Cox, Veras, Edwar, none of them have pitched a full season in the majors yet. A veteran reliever will need to be in the mix I believe which I think needs to be looked from other teams.

Joba hadn't pitched a full season in the majors last year and filled the setup man role very well. No one is expecting these guys to be Joba, but they should be able to complete a single inning without giving up a run.

There comes a time when you need to see if your farm hands can flourish.

fellows
06-04-08, 02:49 PM
Joba hadn't pitched a full season in the majors last year and filled the setup man role very well. No one is expecting these guys to be Joba, but they should be able to complete a single inning without giving up a run.

There comes a time when you need to see if your farm hands can flourish.

The Yankees got lucky last year with Joba. You can't assume some rookie will step in and perform like that under pressure. The Yankees first have to wait until Cox is ready to pitch in the majors, then wait to see if he can perform at the highest level, and then if all goes well they can test him in pressure spots. How long is that going to take? I see a big gap in time to wait for our young releivers since they are not even as close to major league ready as we all would hope. A bad rotation that gives it's team the fewest innings in the AL can not also have a one man pen behind it. This team has to do something soon if they would like to contend this year.

dave8274
06-04-08, 06:10 PM
The Yankees got lucky last year with Joba. You can't assume some rookie will step in and perform like that under pressure. The Yankees first have to wait until Cox is ready to pitch in the majors, then wait to see if he can perform at the highest level, and then if all goes well they can test him in pressure spots. How long is that going to take? I see a big gap in time to wait for our young releivers since they are not even as close to major league ready as we all would hope. A bad rotation that gives it's team the fewest innings in the AL can not also have a one man pen behind it. This team has to do something soon if they would like to contend this year.

How do they determine that? When his ERA drops below 0.00?

Yankee Tripper
06-04-08, 06:13 PM
How do they determine that? When his ERA drops below 0.00?How about when he isn't walking more than 6 per 9 IP?

MTYankee23
06-04-08, 06:18 PM
I think one of you is talking about Cox (0.00 ERA) in AAA and the other is talking about Robertson (walking more than 6 per 9 IP).

R.V.47
06-04-08, 07:04 PM
The transition from NL to AL is not as dramatic for relief pitchers since they usually are facing pinch hitters rather than the pitcher in the #9 spot.

Ive never liked bringing in NL pitchers either but with the state of our bullpen I think some kind of move has to be made and I doubt we will find a reliever on the market with a better track record than Fuentes.

fellows
06-04-08, 07:36 PM
How do they determine that? When his ERA drops below 0.00?

3.48 SO/9 is something to work on. He is also coming off surgery so you don't want to rush him. Some recent comments from the Yankee FO made it seem like they didn't think he would be ready until late in the year.

Pinstripe Pride23
06-05-08, 08:39 AM
Ive never liked bringing in NL pitchers either but with the state of our bullpen I think some kind of move has to be made and I doubt we will find a reliever on the market with a better track record than Fuentes.

So many NL scrubs over they years....

Hawkins
Wohlers
Witasick
Weathers
Gabe White
Chris Hammond
Wayne Franklin

and my personal favorite - Ed Whitson.

Ahhh memories...

justinvarnes
06-05-08, 08:59 AM
I hope this is another instance where the Yankees wait until their PREMIUM kids are ready to hit the ML to see if they fit the team before trading them away - particularly for a reliever who is 32.

I'd love Fuentes. But I'd rather lose this year with all our really strong prospects either learning the ropes in NY or getting seasoning in AA, AAA than trade them away for a 32 year old setup guy.


The reason I bring that up is because I think the Yankees would HAVE to give up a few of those guys to get a really good reliever like Fuentes.

Hellsing
06-05-08, 11:20 AM
I hope this is another instance where the Yankees wait until their PREMIUM kids are ready to hit the ML to see if they fit the team before trading them away - particularly for a reliever who is 32.

I'd love Fuentes. But I'd rather lose this year with all our really strong prospects either learning the ropes in NY or getting seasoning in AA, AAA than trade them away for a 32 year old setup guy.


The reason I bring that up is because I think the Yankees would HAVE to give up a few of those guys to get a really good reliever like Fuentes.

I completely agree. I am not saying to NOT get Fuentes, but it's going to come at a VERY high cost which WILL include one of the high-quality Bullpen prospects in the farm system.

Yankee Tripper
06-05-08, 11:24 AM
I think one of you is talking about Cox (0.00 ERA) in AAA and the other is talking about Robertson (walking more than 6 per 9 IP).my bad. yep had the stats crossed on those two.

fellows
06-06-08, 01:05 AM
Don't forget Fuentes will be a type A free agent, so if they lose him in FA they get some good comp picks. Now, he could be another NL bust but his track record is pretty impressive. Three year splits: vs LH-.184/.274/.292(.565 OPS); vs RH- .221/.318/.372(.690 OPS). Current 178 ERA+ following 155, 142, 164 years.

primetime714
06-06-08, 10:48 AM
I completely agree. I am not saying to NOT get Fuentes, but it's going to come at a VERY high cost which WILL include one of the high-quality Bullpen prospects in the farm system.

Melancon is the only high-quality bullpen prospect I wouldn't give up for Fuentes. I'd like to hold onto Cox and Robertson as well, but I wouldn't lose much sleep over dealing them for Fuentes. I mean if we get Fuentes not only does he instantly improve our bullpen he'll aslo be a type A FA and net us a 1st and a sandwich pick. I'd trade Cox or Robertson for that alone as neither profiles as more than a setup man themselves.

If the Rockies don't get crazy with their asking price Fuentes makes a lot of sense. If we pick up Fuentes midseason. In the offseason we could let Abreu and Fuentes walk and sign Sabathia and Teixeira and still end up with 2 first rounders and 2 sandwich picks (we'd give up our 1st and 2nd for CC and Tex).

MTYankee23
06-06-08, 11:05 AM
Melancon is the only high-quality bullpen prospect I wouldn't give up for Fuentes. I'd like to hold onto Cox and Robertson as well, but I wouldn't lose much sleep over dealing them for Fuentes. I mean if we get Fuentes not only does he instantly improve our bullpen he'll aslo be a type A FA and net us a 1st and a sandwich pick. I'd trade Cox or Robertson for that alone as neither profiles as more than a setup man themselves.

If the Rockies don't get crazy with their asking price Fuentes makes a lot of sense. If we pick up Fuentes midseason. In the offseason we could let Abreu and Fuentes walk and sign Sabathia and Teixeira and still end up with 2 first rounders and 2 sandwich picks (we'd give up our 1st and 2nd for CC and Tex).

Wouldn't that depend on who signs Abreu and Fuentes? I thought that teams in the top 15 didn't lose their firsts, so we could in theory end up with no first, 2 sandwich picks, and 2 seconds.

Jasbro
06-06-08, 11:10 AM
So many NL scrubs over they years....

Hawkins
Wohlers
Witasick
Weathers
Gabe White
Chris Hammond
Wayne Franklin

and my personal favorite - Ed Whitson.

Ahhh memories...

Chris Hammond was actually pretty valuable to us while he was here.

R.V.47
06-06-08, 06:54 PM
Chris Hammond was actually pretty valuable to us while he was here.

He wasnt used correctly. He was actually more effective against righties because of his change up but the yanks were using him to get out lefties IIRC. There was no way he was going to repeat the sub 1 ERA he had the year before with Atlanta .

BennyTheJetRodriguez
06-07-08, 09:33 PM
He wasnt used correctly. He was actually more effective against righties because of his change up but the yanks were using him to get out lefties IIRC. There was no way he was going to repeat the sub 1 ERA he had the year before with Atlanta .
You are correct. He was very effective with the Yankees despite Torre using him wrong and he was very effective with Oakland after we traded him for Garbage.

dont_ya_know24
06-16-08, 01:20 PM
i would be OK with giving up a package of mccutchen and marquez for example if it got us marte/ fuentes. that's a pretty good offer, and we would be getting two first round draft picks for either marte or fuentes.

mccutchen is good, but the yankees have a ton of other pitching prospects that
might still have a spot on the yankees ahead of mccutchen in the future.

BennyTheJetRodriguez
06-17-08, 03:56 PM
i would be OK with giving up a package of mccutchen and marquez for example if it got us marte/ fuentes. that's a pretty good offer, and we would be getting two first round draft picks for either marte or fuentes.

mccutchen is good, but the yankees have a ton of other pitching prospects that
might still have a spot on the yankees ahead of mccutchen in the future.
I'd be down with that for Fuentes. I still think Marte is a glorified Loogy.